5 ms·

The experience I have had with UK unions is very different from this, and the other descriptions of unions in the US. I only had a few interactions with them (

by Balero 7y ago

The experience I have had with UK unions is very different from this, and the other descriptions of unions in the US. I only had a few interactions with them (in a union capacity, the rep was a normal worker as well). These were things like: Getting some new equipment for the break room (kettle and mugs), pushing some new health and safety process (developed alongside the company), and then the yearly meeting, which was along the lines of: "We tried to get X% pay increase, but we ended up only getting X-y% increase. We're organising events for this charity this year. If you want to get involved please get in touch". I get the feeling that, in general, in Europe unions and companies work together with a co-operative relationship. Whereas in the US there are many that have a more antagonistic relationship, which is just weird to me.

duxup 7y ago
It's certainly a more antagonistic relationship from what I've heard from folks in Europe. The worst part is IMO that least with my experience Union leadership is often pretty poor and despite being people who actually work those jobs, they're not very knowledgeable or capable about even the job. It's unfortunate.
pathseeker 7y ago
>Whereas in the US there are many that have a more antagonistic relationship, which is just weird to me. It likely stems from the fact that the birth of the unions in the US was a super violent affair (grotesque murders of both union organizers and union busters). All of the old unions born around that time were founded in an environment where the company was a hostile enemy you negotiated every minute thing with.
- xeromal 7y ago
  This 100%. I'm generally against unions in tech, but the right to have a union was earned in blood here in the US. I hope it stays around at least as a remembrance to those that died for it. We all benefited in some ways.
- makomk 7y ago
  Not just those. One of the more powerful unions famously bombed the Los Angeles Times building and killed a bunch of journalists because it was opposed to unionization.
yibg 7y ago
That sounds like a much better relationship. But in that case isn’t the role of the Union almost redundant? I mean what’s stopping the workers and management from just having a dialog without a union? Another thing is I don’t want the same X% increase as everyone else. What if I’m better or worse employee? Why should I get the same output for variable input?
- scarejunba 7y ago
  Same reason that when you and your friends reserve dinner at Hakkasan you don't all go and call Hakkasan - it's better for everyone if the group manifests as one. Your rep is your designated guy in charge of following up on your requests. I'm not pro-union but the use case is meaningful.
- Gwypaas 7y ago
  Just to take Sweden as an example. For public companies with more than 25 employees the workers have the right to two members and two substitutes on the companies board. Usually these come from the union working with the company. The goal of this is to create a dialog of how the company is run and similar on every level of the company. Regarding your question about the salaries, that is mostly blue-collar work here. For white-collar workers the unions mostly exist to enforce regulations and allow the workers to have the legal clout and information necessary when disputes arise, creating more of a do it right the first time rather than try to bend the rules to see how far you can go environment. Salaries are individually negotiated.
  - yibg 7y ago
    Maybe the differences between how unions are implemented. I've worked at a white collar union shop (electrical engineering) where salaries are collectively negotiated. i.e. x% increase per year. The net result at this particular place has been that outside of promotions, salary increases are tied to tenure.
- Balero 7y ago
  I mean in theory nothing. But then that dialogue would have to be called something, and it would basically be the union at that point. I mean that's all the union is, a group of employees having a unified relationship with the company. I was working in a factory at the time, and the nature of that work didn't lend itself to individual bargaining, like say software engineering. That said I don't see why you couldn't ask for more if you're a better employee, I never got told I couldn't ask. It might be down a different path, like a promotion. And not every union would necessarily do any salary negotiation.

by Balero 7y ago

duxup 7y ago

It's certainly a more antagonistic relationship from what I've heard from folks in Europe. The worst part is IMO that least with my experience Union leadership is often pretty poor and despite being people who actually work those jobs, they're not very knowledgeable or capable about even the job. It's unfortunate.

pathseeker 7y ago

>Whereas in the US there are many that have a more antagonistic relationship, which is just weird to me. It likely stems from the fact that the birth of the unions in the US was a super violent affair (grotesque murders of both union organizers and union busters). All of the old unions born around that time were founded in an environment where the company was a hostile enemy you negotiated every minute thing with.

xeromal 7y ago
This 100%. I'm generally against unions in tech, but the right to have a union was earned in blood here in the US. I hope it stays around at least as a remembrance to those that died for it. We all benefited in some ways.
makomk 7y ago
Not just those. One of the more powerful unions famously bombed the Los Angeles Times building and killed a bunch of journalists because it was opposed to unionization.

yibg 7y ago

That sounds like a much better relationship. But in that case isn’t the role of the Union almost redundant? I mean what’s stopping the workers and management from just having a dialog without a union? Another thing is I don’t want the same X% increase as everyone else. What if I’m better or worse employee? Why should I get the same output for variable input?

scarejunba 7y ago
Same reason that when you and your friends reserve dinner at Hakkasan you don't all go and call Hakkasan - it's better for everyone if the group manifests as one. Your rep is your designated guy in charge of following up on your requests. I'm not pro-union but the use case is meaningful.
Gwypaas 7y ago
Just to take Sweden as an example. For public companies with more than 25 employees the workers have the right to two members and two substitutes on the companies board. Usually these come from the union working with the company. The goal of this is to create a dialog of how the company is run and similar on every level of the company. Regarding your question about the salaries, that is mostly blue-collar work here. For white-collar workers the unions mostly exist to enforce regulations and allow the workers to have the legal clout and information necessary when disputes arise, creating more of a do it right the first time rather than try to bend the rules to see how far you can go environment. Salaries are individually negotiated.
- yibg 7y ago
  Maybe the differences between how unions are implemented. I've worked at a white collar union shop (electrical engineering) where salaries are collectively negotiated. i.e. x% increase per year. The net result at this particular place has been that outside of promotions, salary increases are tied to tenure.
Balero 7y ago
I mean in theory nothing. But then that dialogue would have to be called something, and it would basically be the union at that point. I mean that's all the union is, a group of employees having a unified relationship with the company. I was working in a factory at the time, and the nature of that work didn't lend itself to individual bargaining, like say software engineering. That said I don't see why you couldn't ask for more if you're a better employee, I never got told I couldn't ask. It might be down a different path, like a promotion. And not every union would necessarily do any salary negotiation.