5 ms·

I don't see anything wrong with MOVE... but why does MVC need to be dead? It's such a perfect representation of the coder trope of loudly proclaiming that this

I don't see anything wrong with MOVE... but why does MVC need to be dead? It's such a perfect representation of the coder trope of loudly proclaiming that this new thing I found makes everything else obsolete. Eight years later, MVC is still miraculously not dead!

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
0xdeadbeefbabe 7y ago
What does this mean for waterfall? Is it alive again? It's kind of an insult to death.
- barbecue_sauce 7y ago
  Waterfall is a myth.
  - Jtsummers 7y ago
    If only. I was surrounded by it for the last decade and it works as badly as expected.
    - moron4hire 7y ago
      I think what GP is saying is that what people call "Waterfall" is not what Waterfall was originally defined as. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model#History
  - logfromblammo 7y ago
    My cousin's boyfriend's sister went up to the waterfall, and when they found her body 12 months later--after delivery phase--she had been completely burned out from the inside. And there was this thing... that nobody wanted, that didn't work right, just sitting there next to her. Nobody wanted to touch it. So some guys from the federal government came and picked it up with tongs, and said they'd put it in the Source Control Repository facility out in New Mexico, so it couldn't hurt anybody else.
    - i_am_nomad 7y ago
      Nice to get some commentary from GPT-2.
      - DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
        Wouldn't gpt-2 be much harder to detect. This could just be markov chains which were trained with all their comments from the past. Still pretty cool
        logfromblammo 7y ago
        You mentioned markov chains which were trained earlier. Tell me more about that.
    - carapace 7y ago
      Wow.
  - juped 7y ago
    Waterfall is project management the speaker doesn't like.
- daotoad 7y ago
  We just all pretend that it's agile now.
- rorykoehler 7y ago
  Most people do waterfall still. They don’t know how to think in any other way.
  - winternett 7y ago
    I invented a new methodology called "scattered paperwork"... All you have to do is type all of your project documentation in MS Excel, print it out, and then throw it all over the place... Then Developers can simply pick what's on top and meet for 23 minutes (once every 2 years) to discuss their emotions... It's been a very productive decade for us so far.
yeison 7y ago
That's because OP needed a clickbait title.
phlakaton 7y ago
It's worse than that. MVC is not only not dead, this little essay has conveniently reinvented it! (The C became an O, and the E was always there in some form.)
jkoudys 7y ago
The one thing that will never die is developers claiming that something is dead.
- SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
  As anyone supporting a legacy application knows - that which is dead may never die.
  - goatlover 7y ago
    Just wait till season 8.
    - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
      "That which is not dead may never die, unless involved in a serendipitous knife fight with a one-arm incestuous twin of your current lover" starts to strain the metaphor a _tiny_ bit. I think it's probably more useful in terms of expressing the problems with NPM.
- Pet_Ant 7y ago
  Death is dead?
j45 7y ago
With time I’m noticing those who think anything is going to die or old/new are often relatively still new in their journey of software development. One of the reasons I see feeding this is tossing around senior dev titles with 3 to 5y experience. Even as a higher producing developer, all it did was open my eyes to how much I really had to learn. The reality is seeing one, let alone two 10y cycles of software changes your relationship to architecture of code so much .. that I really hope seniors with 10y exp may not be the same as seniors with 20y experiences in the sheer amount of trauma they have had to help organizations heal from using the latest and greatest that is reinvents the same libraries and frameworks, and leaves more technical debt behind than it offsets by requiring refactoring in months instead of years. Most languages are now very reasonably capable due to quality frameworks for most. This alone will do more to improve the quality of code bases in the next 10y than a replacement for MVC.. Either way, an insightful read.
101404 7y ago
> I don't see anything wrong with MOVE... but why does MVC need to be dead? Because that's how to write headlines people click on. Controversy! Extreme positions! All or nothing!
winternett 7y ago
Reasons why any platform becomes "dead": 1. The person saying it doesn't use the platform. 2. The vendor the person saying it wants to sell a new service. 3. The people saying it are palm readers who can predict the future, and they've already seen it. All very solid reasons.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

0xdeadbeefbabe 7y ago

What does this mean for waterfall? Is it alive again? It's kind of an insult to death.

barbecue_sauce 7y ago
Waterfall is a myth.
- Jtsummers 7y ago
  If only. I was surrounded by it for the last decade and it works as badly as expected.
  - moron4hire 7y ago
    I think what GP is saying is that what people call "Waterfall" is not what Waterfall was originally defined as. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterfall_model#History
- logfromblammo 7y ago
  My cousin's boyfriend's sister went up to the waterfall, and when they found her body 12 months later--after delivery phase--she had been completely burned out from the inside. And there was this thing... that nobody wanted, that didn't work right, just sitting there next to her. Nobody wanted to touch it. So some guys from the federal government came and picked it up with tongs, and said they'd put it in the Source Control Repository facility out in New Mexico, so it couldn't hurt anybody else.
  - i_am_nomad 7y ago
    Nice to get some commentary from GPT-2.
    - DyslexicAtheist 7y ago
      Wouldn't gpt-2 be much harder to detect. This could just be markov chains which were trained with all their comments from the past. Still pretty cool
      - logfromblammo 7y ago
        You mentioned markov chains which were trained earlier. Tell me more about that.
  - carapace 7y ago
    Wow.
- juped 7y ago
  Waterfall is project management the speaker doesn't like.
daotoad 7y ago
We just all pretend that it's agile now.
rorykoehler 7y ago
Most people do waterfall still. They don’t know how to think in any other way.
- winternett 7y ago
  I invented a new methodology called "scattered paperwork"... All you have to do is type all of your project documentation in MS Excel, print it out, and then throw it all over the place... Then Developers can simply pick what's on top and meet for 23 minutes (once every 2 years) to discuss their emotions... It's been a very productive decade for us so far.

yeison 7y ago

That's because OP needed a clickbait title.

phlakaton 7y ago

It's worse than that. MVC is not only not dead, this little essay has conveniently reinvented it! (The C became an O, and the E was always there in some form.)

jkoudys 7y ago

The one thing that will never die is developers claiming that something is dead.

SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
As anyone supporting a legacy application knows - that which is dead may never die.
- goatlover 7y ago
  Just wait till season 8.
  - SketchySeaBeast 7y ago
    "That which is not dead may never die, unless involved in a serendipitous knife fight with a one-arm incestuous twin of your current lover" starts to strain the metaphor a _tiny_ bit. I think it's probably more useful in terms of expressing the problems with NPM.
Pet_Ant 7y ago
Death is dead?

j45 7y ago

With time I’m noticing those who think anything is going to die or old/new are often relatively still new in their journey of software development. One of the reasons I see feeding this is tossing around senior dev titles with 3 to 5y experience. Even as a higher producing developer, all it did was open my eyes to how much I really had to learn. The reality is seeing one, let alone two 10y cycles of software changes your relationship to architecture of code so much .. that I really hope seniors with 10y exp may not be the same as seniors with 20y experiences in the sheer amount of trauma they have had to help organizations heal from using the latest and greatest that is reinvents the same libraries and frameworks, and leaves more technical debt behind than it offsets by requiring refactoring in months instead of years. Most languages are now very reasonably capable due to quality frameworks for most. This alone will do more to improve the quality of code bases in the next 10y than a replacement for MVC.. Either way, an insightful read.

101404 7y ago

> I don't see anything wrong with MOVE... but why does MVC need to be dead? Because that's how to write headlines people click on. Controversy! Extreme positions! All or nothing!

winternett 7y ago

Reasons why any platform becomes "dead": 1. The person saying it doesn't use the platform. 2. The vendor the person saying it wants to sell a new service. 3. The people saying it are palm readers who can predict the future, and they've already seen it. All very solid reasons.