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I don't understand why people would believe that it is. It has all the wrong properties to be a bioweapon: it mainly kills the weak and elderly (unlike the 2009

by mantap 7y ago

I don't understand why people would believe that it is. It has all the wrong properties to be a bioweapon: it mainly kills the weak and elderly (unlike the 2009 "swine" flu which most severely afflicted the young), it isn't targeted, it's seemingly uncontrollable, and it isn't all that deadly.

dboreham 7y ago
Probably for similar reasons that people were suspicious that two Russian ex-pat people came down with a mystery condition in Salsbury, considering the nearby location of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porton_Down https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porton_Down
droithomme 7y ago
> I don't understand why people would believe that it is. The reason to think it is possible is that China's top lab that does research into coronaviruses is in Wuhan and members there have collaborated with American researchers on genetic engineering and testing of augmented coronaviruses that are essentially potential biological weapons. Also at a separate lab in China they had four incidences where SARS samples escaped the lab and caused problems. That is why they build the level 4 biocontainment lab in Wuhan, to have that sort of research take place in a safer facility. It's quite possible this was a research sample, being used for completely legitimate purposes, that escaped the lab. > it isn't all that deadly For certain definitions of deadly no doubt.
echelon 7y ago
Go for a stroll on /r/coronavirus or /r/China_flu to see how panicked and uninformed people are about this. They enjoy spreading fake news and misinformation and downvote any attempts to reason with data and logic. It's almost like they want this to be as dramatic and horrific as possible. These are the kind of people making and spreading these claims.
- adnzzzzZ 7y ago
  I think you're being a bit too dramatic. For instance, read this https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/status/1229202134048133126 https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/status/1229202134048133126 where a senator raises several possibilities (ascribing the most probability of being true to the most reasonable one) yet several articles were written about what he's saying as if he's one of those people spreading "fake news" and "misinformation" that you dislike. Many people are making simple statements that are reasonable and possible but being called conspiracy theorists just for bringing the possibility up at all. You don't get to the truth of a matter by rejecting anything that has a small possibility of being true and labeling it fake news and misinformation. If the claim is extremely unreasonable then it shouldn't be a problem, most people can tell it's unreasonable. If it's not that unreasonable then maybe people should be allowed to speak about it, given that it's not clear how or why it isn't unreasonable.
  - nneonneo 7y ago
    I don’t know where to start with your comment. > If the claim is extremely unreasonable ... most people can tell it’s unreasonable. Surely you must have far more faith in humanity than I do, or you would not make this statement. One only needs to look at the prevalence of vaccine skeptics, climate skeptics, creationists, ... to know that unreasonable claims can garner significant support despite considerable scientific evidence to the contrary. > rejecting anything that has a small possibility of being true Actually, this is called not placing undue weight on fringe ideas. There’s arguably a small possibility of practically anything being true. That doesn’t mean we need to sink time and energy into them. Should our current, most probable line of reasoning display flaws that can’t be remedied, then the scientific method dictates that we explore alternatives. Until then, the most probable explanation reigns. > given that it’s not clear how or why it isn’t unreasonable Unfortunately, the vast majority of people are unlikely to understand the subtler parts of a scientific concept (or really anything they aren’t experts in, in general), and consequently can fail to grasp why something is clearly unreasonable to someone more well-trained. A conspiracy theorist is someone who brings up possibilities that are extremely unlikely to be true. That would fit your senator to a tee. He’s not backing any of this up with actual evidence, he’s just bringing up scary possibilities. We don’t need that kind of fearful reaction in a public health crisis.
- honestoHeminway 7y ago
  Its better to live at the end of times. Gives your life significance. Makes everything you do, your possible last one. Is a symptom of how mundane, boring and deeply hated the western life style actually is by those living in it. To paint a picture with the knife: "Im isolated, but at least we all die together." One scenario usually not even considered by the xeno-phobic, could cgove use this against its own aging "lost" generation? They are prone to riots - and there is no social net except for family (which fails due to western cultural influence). So a virus to carry them out in large numbers, would make sense if your where a sociopathic government, focused maniacally on stability and at the end of the rope when it comes to winging it with nationalism.
badrabbit 7y ago
The conspiracy is that it got out during experimentation. You're talking about a fully developed bioweapon, the conspiracy makes sense if you consider perhaps they were playing around with sars and tuning it when it escaped to the wuhan animal market next door.
shmerl 7y ago
It doesn't have to be engineered as a bioweapon, to be artificial. Could be some kind of experiment that leaked out.
davedx 7y ago
PrisonPlanet is working hard to spread this meme. He has 1.1 million followers on Twitter.

by mantap 7y ago

dboreham 7y ago

Probably for similar reasons that people were suspicious that two Russian ex-pat people came down with a mystery condition in Salsbury, considering the nearby location of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porton_Down https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Porton_Down

droithomme 7y ago

> I don't understand why people would believe that it is. The reason to think it is possible is that China's top lab that does research into coronaviruses is in Wuhan and members there have collaborated with American researchers on genetic engineering and testing of augmented coronaviruses that are essentially potential biological weapons. Also at a separate lab in China they had four incidences where SARS samples escaped the lab and caused problems. That is why they build the level 4 biocontainment lab in Wuhan, to have that sort of research take place in a safer facility. It's quite possible this was a research sample, being used for completely legitimate purposes, that escaped the lab. > it isn't all that deadly For certain definitions of deadly no doubt.

echelon 7y ago

Go for a stroll on /r/coronavirus or /r/China_flu to see how panicked and uninformed people are about this. They enjoy spreading fake news and misinformation and downvote any attempts to reason with data and logic. It's almost like they want this to be as dramatic and horrific as possible. These are the kind of people making and spreading these claims.

adnzzzzZ 7y ago
I think you're being a bit too dramatic. For instance, read this https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/status/1229202134048133126 https://twitter.com/SenTomCotton/status/1229202134048133126 where a senator raises several possibilities (ascribing the most probability of being true to the most reasonable one) yet several articles were written about what he's saying as if he's one of those people spreading "fake news" and "misinformation" that you dislike. Many people are making simple statements that are reasonable and possible but being called conspiracy theorists just for bringing the possibility up at all. You don't get to the truth of a matter by rejecting anything that has a small possibility of being true and labeling it fake news and misinformation. If the claim is extremely unreasonable then it shouldn't be a problem, most people can tell it's unreasonable. If it's not that unreasonable then maybe people should be allowed to speak about it, given that it's not clear how or why it isn't unreasonable.
- nneonneo 7y ago
  I don’t know where to start with your comment. > If the claim is extremely unreasonable ... most people can tell it’s unreasonable. Surely you must have far more faith in humanity than I do, or you would not make this statement. One only needs to look at the prevalence of vaccine skeptics, climate skeptics, creationists, ... to know that unreasonable claims can garner significant support despite considerable scientific evidence to the contrary. > rejecting anything that has a small possibility of being true Actually, this is called not placing undue weight on fringe ideas. There’s arguably a small possibility of practically anything being true. That doesn’t mean we need to sink time and energy into them. Should our current, most probable line of reasoning display flaws that can’t be remedied, then the scientific method dictates that we explore alternatives. Until then, the most probable explanation reigns. > given that it’s not clear how or why it isn’t unreasonable Unfortunately, the vast majority of people are unlikely to understand the subtler parts of a scientific concept (or really anything they aren’t experts in, in general), and consequently can fail to grasp why something is clearly unreasonable to someone more well-trained. A conspiracy theorist is someone who brings up possibilities that are extremely unlikely to be true. That would fit your senator to a tee. He’s not backing any of this up with actual evidence, he’s just bringing up scary possibilities. We don’t need that kind of fearful reaction in a public health crisis.
honestoHeminway 7y ago
Its better to live at the end of times. Gives your life significance. Makes everything you do, your possible last one. Is a symptom of how mundane, boring and deeply hated the western life style actually is by those living in it. To paint a picture with the knife: "Im isolated, but at least we all die together." One scenario usually not even considered by the xeno-phobic, could cgove use this against its own aging "lost" generation? They are prone to riots - and there is no social net except for family (which fails due to western cultural influence). So a virus to carry them out in large numbers, would make sense if your where a sociopathic government, focused maniacally on stability and at the end of the rope when it comes to winging it with nationalism.

badrabbit 7y ago

The conspiracy is that it got out during experimentation. You're talking about a fully developed bioweapon, the conspiracy makes sense if you consider perhaps they were playing around with sars and tuning it when it escaped to the wuhan animal market next door.

shmerl 7y ago

It doesn't have to be engineered as a bioweapon, to be artificial. Could be some kind of experiment that leaked out.

davedx 7y ago

PrisonPlanet is working hard to spread this meme. He has 1.1 million followers on Twitter.