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There used to be a time when we could hope that browsers would put users first and disable dark patterns like these. Now, there are so many advertisers that us

by jawns 7y ago

There used to be a time when we could hope that browsers would put users first and disable dark patterns like these. Now, there are so many advertisers that use Tynt and related services to muck with copy/paste that it wouldn't surprise me if the major browsers are incentivized to leave this alone and let users suffer.

adtac 7y ago
And when was that? The 2000-2010 era where everything you clicked added a layer to your Internet Explorer addons list? Or the 2010-2014 era where everything required Java and Flash enabled by default, ridden with zero day exploits? Or the 2014-2016 era with cryptominers, trackers and trivial fingerprinting techniques allowed to exist easily? Or the 2016-current era with heavy Javascript applications which train the user to expect some interactivity with every action (and therefore encourage devs to do stuff like in this post)?
- jawns 7y ago
  I was thinking about the removal of the <blink> tag, removed in Firefox 23 Ah, those were the days :)
smt88 7y ago
> disable dark patterns like these Clipboard access isn't guaranteed to be a dark pattern, though. It's an API that the browser supports. I dislike clipboard access 99% of the time, but it's actually useful in a few UIs (like copying keys in AWS). Should it really be up to the browser to determine that an API is always a dark pattern? Honestly, most of the worst dark patterns of the web are enabled by regular <div>, <button>, and <img> elements -- which is to say, they're not something the browser can unilaterally decide are "evil".
- cortesoft 7y ago
  Is it really useful in AWS? Why is it needed?
  - smt88 7y ago
    In certain situations, you have to copy and paste a bunch of settings over and over again. It saves you a few clicks and keyboard taps each time.
sigotirandolas 7y ago
In Firefox this behaviour has been closed as WONTFIX for >10 years [1] and actually accepted for more like 20 years [2]. [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504748 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504748 [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39098#c23 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39098#c23
- gruez 7y ago
  I mean, there's a reason why it's WONTFIX, down in the 4th comment: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504748#c4 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504748#c4
  - wtallis 7y ago
    That's not a reason, it's a flimsy excuse to avoid implementing a non-trivial feature. The fact that there are non-JS ways to pollute the clipboard does not mean it's pointless to protect the user from JS based clipboard abuse. The fact that some web apps have legitimate use cases for augmenting copied data does not mean the browser should default to providing that functionality to every page.

by jawns 7y ago

adtac 7y ago

And when was that? The 2000-2010 era where everything you clicked added a layer to your Internet Explorer addons list? Or the 2010-2014 era where everything required Java and Flash enabled by default, ridden with zero day exploits? Or the 2014-2016 era with cryptominers, trackers and trivial fingerprinting techniques allowed to exist easily? Or the 2016-current era with heavy Javascript applications which train the user to expect some interactivity with every action (and therefore encourage devs to do stuff like in this post)?

jawns 7y ago
I was thinking about the removal of the <blink> tag, removed in Firefox 23 Ah, those were the days :)

smt88 7y ago

> disable dark patterns like these Clipboard access isn't guaranteed to be a dark pattern, though. It's an API that the browser supports. I dislike clipboard access 99% of the time, but it's actually useful in a few UIs (like copying keys in AWS). Should it really be up to the browser to determine that an API is always a dark pattern? Honestly, most of the worst dark patterns of the web are enabled by regular <div>, <button>, and <img> elements -- which is to say, they're not something the browser can unilaterally decide are "evil".

cortesoft 7y ago
Is it really useful in AWS? Why is it needed?
- smt88 7y ago
  In certain situations, you have to copy and paste a bunch of settings over and over again. It saves you a few clicks and keyboard taps each time.

sigotirandolas 7y ago

In Firefox this behaviour has been closed as WONTFIX for >10 years [1] and actually accepted for more like 20 years [2]. [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504748 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504748 [2] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39098#c23 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=39098#c23

gruez 7y ago
I mean, there's a reason why it's WONTFIX, down in the 4th comment: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504748#c4 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=504748#c4
- wtallis 7y ago
  That's not a reason, it's a flimsy excuse to avoid implementing a non-trivial feature. The fact that there are non-JS ways to pollute the clipboard does not mean it's pointless to protect the user from JS based clipboard abuse. The fact that some web apps have legitimate use cases for augmenting copied data does not mean the browser should default to providing that functionality to every page.