5 ms·

for some reason, a LOT of people here do not like assange/wikileaks anymore. which is super weird imho.

drpgq 7y ago
I would assume some associating it with Trump is behind it.
kyralis 7y ago
I suspect it's a result of the apparent politicization of Wikileaks. When it first appeared it seemed fairly neutral, but that neutrality appears to have vanished somewhere along the line.
- fernandotakai 7y ago
  but wikileaks was always political. i mean, we all remember collateral murder and the amount of stuff leaked re: gwb and the iraq war.
- clutchingstraws 7y ago
  >When it first appeared it seemed fairly neutral, but that neutrality appears to have vanished somewhere along the line. Wikileaks has always been as neutral as reasonably possible, given that it consists of human journalists and their human sources, not emotionless impartial machines. They have an excellent accuracy rate. The only thing that changed is that their honest reporting became embarrassing to wealthy and powerful people closely associated with the Democratic party. The DNC leadership loved Wikileaks' reporting on governmental malfeasance prior to late 2008. What changed in late 2008 was not Wikileaks' demonstrated neutrality towards reporting on governmental malfeasance, but the color of the lawn signs of the victorious president. I suspect there's also some deep resentment from the traditional J-school cohort, who have spent over a decade being embarrassed by outsider Assange and his colleagues. Wikileaks has consistently make them look like obedient stenographers to the powerful, not principled journalists willing to speak truth to power. Wikileaks has publicly exposed many in the media as being too afraid to break real stories for fear of government legal pressure and a reduction in corporate advertising dollars. Raytheon, Lockheed-Martin, and Boeing don't advertise their military hardware on the cable news networks because they're trying to sell cruise missiles and fighter jets to the folks at home. They do it to hold something over the cable news networks' execs' heads when embarrassing stories might come to light. Combine the collective resentment of the leadership of both major American political parties and their connected donors, the national security apparatus, the military-industrial complex, and every mainstream journalist who's getting scooped by an Australian ex-black-hat and his friends who (gasp!) never even attended Columbia, and we end up with a vicious and unfounded anti-wikileaks narrative festering within the politically-acceptable conversation today.
  - catalogia 7y ago
    > Raytheon, Lockheed-Martin, and Boeing [...] advertise their military hardware on the cable news networks I had no idea that was happening. Sounds like American television is getting pretty wacky.
    - drjesusphd 7y ago
      It's been like that for at least 15 years.
- ryanlol 7y ago
  Wikileaks has always been a political project, why would you expect anything else from the left-wing anarchist CCC crowd that runs it?
runningoutofta 7y ago
wikileaks published the DNC emails which harmed the DNC and Hillary in particular. It was a factor in low turnout and Hillary's loss. Since then wikileaks has been associated with Russia / Putin / Trump (bad). The collateral damage era has been mostly forgotten.
- throwawaythekey 7y ago
  What's interesting is, many of the same people who criticize the leaks for hurting Hillary's chances would also applaud the leaks for demonstrating DNC bias against Bernie.
- 101404 7y ago
  That was a pretty "clever" part in the smear campaign. First declare him a "rapist". But that didn't cut it. So they made him a "Trumpist". And many people still believe it up to this day.
  - FireBeyond 7y ago
    "they" did? So emails and conversations that show the Trump campaign and family communicating with Assange over leaks and timings were ... what ... smear? * https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-secret-correspondence-between-donald-trump-jr-and-wikileaks/545738/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-sec... * https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/14/563996442/donald-trump-jr-had-direct-contact-with-wikileaks-during-campaign https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/14/563996442... * https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-campaign-planned-wikileaks-dump-tried-acquire-clinton-emails-mueller-n996081 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-campaign... > On Oct. 3, WikiLeaks, writing a day before it was set to announce the release of hacked Democratic emails, wrote to Trump Jr.: "Hiya. It'd be great if you guys could comment on /push this story." Yeah. Can't imagine why he might be considered a "Trumpist"...
- downerending 7y ago
  "harmed" seems like an odd choice of words. The leaks made public a lot of exceedingly unflattering facts (and perhaps illegalities) that put the DNC and Clinton in a very different light. AFAIK, few or none of those facts has been refuted. To me, it looks like the leaks were a great public service. (I have not much doubt that one could find a similar cesspool on the RNC side.) The effect of the leaks would have been rather minor if all involved would have just issued a mea culpa and fired the head of the DNC outright. Instead, it felt like they just told us all to suck it up.
Krasnol 7y ago
I wouldn't call it weird. The whole Russia deal and him taking sides is something many can not ignore.
- black_puppydog 7y ago
  Although, that's kinda what you (read: Clinton) can expect from someone she helped maneuver into a corner...
  - Krasnol 7y ago
    Can you? Why? It's not like it helped him much to align himself with Russia (or Putins politics and world views) or did it? It didn't even help him to help Trump get elected by leaking this stuff at the right moment in time and it's not like Trump couldn't help him out (see Roger Stone or Flynn soon). He projected himself as an Anarchist once. The independence in persona. This independence was what brought him trust. He lost all that. He did not lose that because the USA wanted to see him in jail. Snowden is still a respectable person for example.
- 101404 7y ago
  If that ever really happened the way it was presented.
  - Krasnol 7y ago
    He presented himself at least on twitter this way.
101404 7y ago
Not really. "Tell a lie enough times and people will believe it". Sadly, that's still true. Even in people who consciously know that it was all lies. That's the human mind for ya.
echelon 7y ago
The last US presidential election cycle really soured public opinion on Assange. After the Hillary email leaks, Democratic Party rhetoric turned against Assange. Many in the party hold him culpable for Trump's election. I don't know if he was favoring one party or the other (as some Democrats purport), or if he was a Russian mouthpiece, or if he was just leaking the information that came to him unbeknownst to the state actors at play. He lost a lot of the goodwill he built, and that put him in a very dangerous spot.
Bendingo 7y ago
I think one reason for the "Assange is an asshole" hate is that there are many people all over the West who love and believe in the USA as a unequalled force for good, and they are filled with resentment towards Assange for destroying that belief. They can't deny the terrible acts perpetrated by the US, so they try to reclaim some moral superiority by accepting and repeating the completely unsubstantiated (and in some cases, ridiculous) smears against Assange.

I would assume some associating it with Trump is behind it.

I suspect it's a result of the apparent politicization of Wikileaks. When it first appeared it seemed fairly neutral, but that neutrality appears to have vanished somewhere along the line.

fernandotakai 7y ago
but wikileaks was always political. i mean, we all remember collateral murder and the amount of stuff leaked re: gwb and the iraq war.
clutchingstraws 7y ago
>When it first appeared it seemed fairly neutral, but that neutrality appears to have vanished somewhere along the line. Wikileaks has always been as neutral as reasonably possible, given that it consists of human journalists and their human sources, not emotionless impartial machines. They have an excellent accuracy rate. The only thing that changed is that their honest reporting became embarrassing to wealthy and powerful people closely associated with the Democratic party. The DNC leadership loved Wikileaks' reporting on governmental malfeasance prior to late 2008. What changed in late 2008 was not Wikileaks' demonstrated neutrality towards reporting on governmental malfeasance, but the color of the lawn signs of the victorious president. I suspect there's also some deep resentment from the traditional J-school cohort, who have spent over a decade being embarrassed by outsider Assange and his colleagues. Wikileaks has consistently make them look like obedient stenographers to the powerful, not principled journalists willing to speak truth to power. Wikileaks has publicly exposed many in the media as being too afraid to break real stories for fear of government legal pressure and a reduction in corporate advertising dollars. Raytheon, Lockheed-Martin, and Boeing don't advertise their military hardware on the cable news networks because they're trying to sell cruise missiles and fighter jets to the folks at home. They do it to hold something over the cable news networks' execs' heads when embarrassing stories might come to light. Combine the collective resentment of the leadership of both major American political parties and their connected donors, the national security apparatus, the military-industrial complex, and every mainstream journalist who's getting scooped by an Australian ex-black-hat and his friends who (gasp!) never even attended Columbia, and we end up with a vicious and unfounded anti-wikileaks narrative festering within the politically-acceptable conversation today.
- catalogia 7y ago
  > Raytheon, Lockheed-Martin, and Boeing [...] advertise their military hardware on the cable news networks I had no idea that was happening. Sounds like American television is getting pretty wacky.
  - drjesusphd 7y ago
    It's been like that for at least 15 years.
ryanlol 7y ago
Wikileaks has always been a political project, why would you expect anything else from the left-wing anarchist CCC crowd that runs it?

runningoutofta 7y ago

wikileaks published the DNC emails which harmed the DNC and Hillary in particular. It was a factor in low turnout and Hillary's loss. Since then wikileaks has been associated with Russia / Putin / Trump (bad). The collateral damage era has been mostly forgotten.

throwawaythekey 7y ago
What's interesting is, many of the same people who criticize the leaks for hurting Hillary's chances would also applaud the leaks for demonstrating DNC bias against Bernie.
101404 7y ago
That was a pretty "clever" part in the smear campaign. First declare him a "rapist". But that didn't cut it. So they made him a "Trumpist". And many people still believe it up to this day.
- FireBeyond 7y ago
  "they" did? So emails and conversations that show the Trump campaign and family communicating with Assange over leaks and timings were ... what ... smear? * https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-secret-correspondence-between-donald-trump-jr-and-wikileaks/545738/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/11/the-sec... * https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/14/563996442/donald-trump-jr-had-direct-contact-with-wikileaks-during-campaign https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/11/14/563996442... * https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-campaign-planned-wikileaks-dump-tried-acquire-clinton-emails-mueller-n996081 https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/trump-campaign... > On Oct. 3, WikiLeaks, writing a day before it was set to announce the release of hacked Democratic emails, wrote to Trump Jr.: "Hiya. It'd be great if you guys could comment on /push this story." Yeah. Can't imagine why he might be considered a "Trumpist"...
downerending 7y ago
"harmed" seems like an odd choice of words. The leaks made public a lot of exceedingly unflattering facts (and perhaps illegalities) that put the DNC and Clinton in a very different light. AFAIK, few or none of those facts has been refuted. To me, it looks like the leaks were a great public service. (I have not much doubt that one could find a similar cesspool on the RNC side.) The effect of the leaks would have been rather minor if all involved would have just issued a mea culpa and fired the head of the DNC outright. Instead, it felt like they just told us all to suck it up.

Krasnol 7y ago

I wouldn't call it weird. The whole Russia deal and him taking sides is something many can not ignore.

black_puppydog 7y ago
Although, that's kinda what you (read: Clinton) can expect from someone she helped maneuver into a corner...
- Krasnol 7y ago
  Can you? Why? It's not like it helped him much to align himself with Russia (or Putins politics and world views) or did it? It didn't even help him to help Trump get elected by leaking this stuff at the right moment in time and it's not like Trump couldn't help him out (see Roger Stone or Flynn soon). He projected himself as an Anarchist once. The independence in persona. This independence was what brought him trust. He lost all that. He did not lose that because the USA wanted to see him in jail. Snowden is still a respectable person for example.
101404 7y ago
If that ever really happened the way it was presented.
- Krasnol 7y ago
  He presented himself at least on twitter this way.

101404 7y ago

Not really. "Tell a lie enough times and people will believe it". Sadly, that's still true. Even in people who consciously know that it was all lies. That's the human mind for ya.

echelon 7y ago

The last US presidential election cycle really soured public opinion on Assange. After the Hillary email leaks, Democratic Party rhetoric turned against Assange. Many in the party hold him culpable for Trump's election. I don't know if he was favoring one party or the other (as some Democrats purport), or if he was a Russian mouthpiece, or if he was just leaking the information that came to him unbeknownst to the state actors at play. He lost a lot of the goodwill he built, and that put him in a very dangerous spot.

Bendingo 7y ago

I think one reason for the "Assange is an asshole" hate is that there are many people all over the West who love and believe in the USA as a unequalled force for good, and they are filled with resentment towards Assange for destroying that belief. They can't deny the terrible acts perpetrated by the US, so they try to reclaim some moral superiority by accepting and repeating the completely unsubstantiated (and in some cases, ridiculous) smears against Assange.