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And this is about the point where I finally gave up on C++, I just wish I could get the time I spent learning all the rules and all their exceptions back. It h

by codr7 7y ago

And this is about the point where I finally gave up on C++, I just wish I could get the time I spent learning all the rules and all their exceptions back. It has now morphed into a language where today's optimal code looks horribly inefficient by yesterday's standards. Which adds another layer of uncertainty to what was already a pretty serious mess of a language. Calling this simple is about as silly as it gets. Thanks, but no thanks, I have problems to solve.

lioeters 7y ago
@codr7 - By chance I was just browsing your projects yesterday! g-fu ¹, a Lisp dialect in Go, is a marvel. Other languages you've been creating (gfoo, cfoo, lila) are tastefully done too. So I'm in total agreement with you about the monstrosity that is modern C++. Nobody would have designed such a language from scratch. It seems to be a common fate of popular and long-lived languages (or projects, companies even), that it grows into a complicated monster that would horrify its original creator. ¹ https://github.com/codr7/g-fu https://github.com/codr7/g-fu
- codr7 7y ago
  I'm glad you enjoy them, writing and using these languages floats my boat but it's always nice to get confirmation that I'm not alone in here :) The biggest issue with g-fu is that it currently expands macros on evaluation. What can I say, it was the first time I implemented quasi-quoting which twisted my brain in exotic ways. That's also why it's so close to Lisp, because it's the only decent macro system I have experience from. g-foo is definitely a cleaner design, but more Forth than Lisp which may not be everyone's cup. Agreed, and Bjarne said so himself; that there's a cleaner, more consistent language hidden deep inside C++. C compatibility has been a blessing and a curse. I think Stepanov is a better designer though; if it wasn't for the STL, I would have given up a long time ago.
richard78459 7y ago
But the world is built on C++ and there are no alternatives for it. C is too low level and Rust has garbage collector which may not be fit for the domain C++ is suitable for. No alternatives in the domains where C++ shines.
- codr7 7y ago
  There is definitely more C than C++ running under the hood on most computers. C is the language where there are no alternatives if you ask me. Go is garbage collected and C++/Rust are both infinitely more complicated.
- DoingIsLearning 7y ago
  Ada 2012? Perhaps no other _popular_ alternatives but still there are alternatives.
- unrealhoang 7y ago
  Rust has as much garbage collector as C++ has share_ptr. Put simply, it doesn’t have.

by codr7 7y ago

lioeters 7y ago

@codr7 - By chance I was just browsing your projects yesterday! g-fu ¹, a Lisp dialect in Go, is a marvel. Other languages you've been creating (gfoo, cfoo, lila) are tastefully done too. So I'm in total agreement with you about the monstrosity that is modern C++. Nobody would have designed such a language from scratch. It seems to be a common fate of popular and long-lived languages (or projects, companies even), that it grows into a complicated monster that would horrify its original creator. ¹ https://github.com/codr7/g-fu https://github.com/codr7/g-fu

codr7 7y ago
I'm glad you enjoy them, writing and using these languages floats my boat but it's always nice to get confirmation that I'm not alone in here :) The biggest issue with g-fu is that it currently expands macros on evaluation. What can I say, it was the first time I implemented quasi-quoting which twisted my brain in exotic ways. That's also why it's so close to Lisp, because it's the only decent macro system I have experience from. g-foo is definitely a cleaner design, but more Forth than Lisp which may not be everyone's cup. Agreed, and Bjarne said so himself; that there's a cleaner, more consistent language hidden deep inside C++. C compatibility has been a blessing and a curse. I think Stepanov is a better designer though; if it wasn't for the STL, I would have given up a long time ago.

richard78459 7y ago

But the world is built on C++ and there are no alternatives for it. C is too low level and Rust has garbage collector which may not be fit for the domain C++ is suitable for. No alternatives in the domains where C++ shines.

codr7 7y ago
There is definitely more C than C++ running under the hood on most computers. C is the language where there are no alternatives if you ask me. Go is garbage collected and C++/Rust are both infinitely more complicated.
DoingIsLearning 7y ago
Ada 2012? Perhaps no other _popular_ alternatives but still there are alternatives.
unrealhoang 7y ago
Rust has as much garbage collector as C++ has share_ptr. Put simply, it doesn’t have.