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Do you use Mac OS X? When using Windows or Linux I don't find much benefit in text rendering on a 4k display. But as Mac OS X has no sub pixel rendering or gr

Do you use Mac OS X? When using Windows or Linux I don't find much benefit in text rendering on a 4k display. But as Mac OS X has no sub pixel rendering or grid fitting text looks terrible without a high ppi display.

jjoonathan 7y ago
When did that happen? Back in my day, OSX was the one with sub pixel rendering and Windows users would constantly complain that it looked fuzzy.
- detrino 7y ago
  OSX has had sub pixel rendering disabled by default since Mojave. It also never had the strong hinting that you can find on Linux and Windows which makes text significantly sharper at the cost of differing from the shape as specified by the font.
  - radicaldreamer 7y ago
    They were paying to license Microsoft’s ClearType patents and decided not to pay anymore once retina displays had become near standard for lost Macs and subpixel rendering was no longer necessary
    - jjoonathan 7y ago
      If true, it's a pity they were paying. Apple's SPR goes back to the Woz days, whereas ClearType didn't come around until XP, and wasn't a default until Vista.
AnthonBerg 7y ago
macOS looks fine on a 32” 4K
chrisweekly 7y ago
This! MacOS (mbp15r) with seemingly any non-Apple external monitor, text looks just awful regardless of font or resolution settings.
m463 7y ago
I was thinking macos always had subpixel rendering, but maybe it does not? I am not running mojave https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17476873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17476873 Also, apple has a tendency to support fancy features ONLY on its own hardware. I know apple retina displays allowed display scaling, but non-apple displays only let you set the absolute display resolution.
- lightbulbjim 7y ago
  Not true. I get the same scaling options on my 4K monitor as I do on my Retina display.
  - m463 7y ago
    I'm not running the latest os. On my displays I could only get the list of resolutions for my monitor, even holding down alt with preferences. Meanwhile apple displays showed this dialog: https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/displays/adjusting_display.png https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare... Maybe the latest OS allows it?
    - lightbulbjim 7y ago
      Yeah, maybe it's the OS version. I'm running Catalina and I see the scaling options from that screenshot for my external non-Apple monitor.
  - Wowfunhappy 7y ago
    I don't know what you're seeing but the retina scaling options don't appear on any non-Apple display I've ever used. (Unless I hack the kexts.)
    - Aloha 7y ago
      Works for me, I'm using two fairly new dell 4K screens, as far as I know it works on any hidpi display
proverbialbunny 7y ago
I do use OSX, but I'm also on Linux Mint. Both are sharp and smooth as butter. I'm uncertain why your experience has been what it has with Linux. Could be drivers or something. I did have to set Mint to work for 4k60. It did not work out of the box properly. (HiDPI was off. Hardware vsync was off.) Mint has never had sub pixel rendering as far as I know. It looks crisp and great.
- detrino 7y ago
  I think you misunderstand me. I am saying that on Linux text at normal PPI is pretty much as good (to me) as text at high PPI because it has sub pixel rendering and strong hinting that Mac OS X lacks,
PretzelFisch 7y ago
On windows with a 27in 4k I definitely see a difference much better then the past 2560x1440 or 2560x1600
grosswait 7y ago
I've had to use this fix for non-Apple monitors https://www.mathewinkson.com/2013/03/force-rgb-mode-in-mac-os-x-to-fix-the-picture-quality-of-an-external-monitor https://www.mathewinkson.com/2013/03/force-rgb-mode-in-mac-o...

jjoonathan 7y ago

When did that happen? Back in my day, OSX was the one with sub pixel rendering and Windows users would constantly complain that it looked fuzzy.

detrino 7y ago
OSX has had sub pixel rendering disabled by default since Mojave. It also never had the strong hinting that you can find on Linux and Windows which makes text significantly sharper at the cost of differing from the shape as specified by the font.
- radicaldreamer 7y ago
  They were paying to license Microsoft’s ClearType patents and decided not to pay anymore once retina displays had become near standard for lost Macs and subpixel rendering was no longer necessary
  - jjoonathan 7y ago
    If true, it's a pity they were paying. Apple's SPR goes back to the Woz days, whereas ClearType didn't come around until XP, and wasn't a default until Vista.

AnthonBerg 7y ago

macOS looks fine on a 32” 4K

chrisweekly 7y ago

This! MacOS (mbp15r) with seemingly any non-Apple external monitor, text looks just awful regardless of font or resolution settings.

m463 7y ago

I was thinking macos always had subpixel rendering, but maybe it does not? I am not running mojave https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17476873 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17476873 Also, apple has a tendency to support fancy features ONLY on its own hardware. I know apple retina displays allowed display scaling, but non-apple displays only let you set the absolute display resolution.

lightbulbjim 7y ago
Not true. I get the same scaling options on my 4K monitor as I do on my Retina display.
- m463 7y ago
  I'm not running the latest os. On my displays I could only get the list of resolutions for my monitor, even holding down alt with preferences. Meanwhile apple displays showed this dialog: https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare/images/en_US/displays/adjusting_display.png https://support.apple.com/library/content/dam/edam/applecare... Maybe the latest OS allows it?
  - lightbulbjim 7y ago
    Yeah, maybe it's the OS version. I'm running Catalina and I see the scaling options from that screenshot for my external non-Apple monitor.
- Wowfunhappy 7y ago
  I don't know what you're seeing but the retina scaling options don't appear on any non-Apple display I've ever used. (Unless I hack the kexts.)
  - Aloha 7y ago
    Works for me, I'm using two fairly new dell 4K screens, as far as I know it works on any hidpi display

proverbialbunny 7y ago

I do use OSX, but I'm also on Linux Mint. Both are sharp and smooth as butter. I'm uncertain why your experience has been what it has with Linux. Could be drivers or something. I did have to set Mint to work for 4k60. It did not work out of the box properly. (HiDPI was off. Hardware vsync was off.) Mint has never had sub pixel rendering as far as I know. It looks crisp and great.

detrino 7y ago
I think you misunderstand me. I am saying that on Linux text at normal PPI is pretty much as good (to me) as text at high PPI because it has sub pixel rendering and strong hinting that Mac OS X lacks,

PretzelFisch 7y ago

On windows with a 27in 4k I definitely see a difference much better then the past 2560x1440 or 2560x1600

grosswait 7y ago

I've had to use this fix for non-Apple monitors https://www.mathewinkson.com/2013/03/force-rgb-mode-in-mac-os-x-to-fix-the-picture-quality-of-an-external-monitor https://www.mathewinkson.com/2013/03/force-rgb-mode-in-mac-o...