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It's really pretty bad: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-curse-of-elon-musk.983513/ https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-curse-of-elon-musk... At

It's really pretty bad: https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-curse-of-elon-musk.983513/ https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/the-curse-of-elon-musk... At the very least, there should be some kind of international treaties governing this. The night sky is a common good.

6nf 7y ago
> there should be some kind of international treaties governing this There are
rtsil 7y ago
It's a matter of perspective. I know people living in remote and even not so remote areas for whom cheap and easy internet access would literally be a live changer, and who wouldn't care less about astronomers having their work more difficult as a consequence, because, again, it would be a literal life-changing event for them in terms of personal safety, agriculture, income or education.
- SiempreViernes 7y ago
  Who will pay for that big complicated ball of light streaks so that the internet will become cheap? Is it those rural users currently aren't profitable enough to supply otherwise?
  - rtsil 7y ago
    Based on the prices I've been hearing, yes. $100/month or less for a GB/s connection shared between dozens of houses or more. Or an astute entrepreneur will create a cybercafe or resell it. The small businessmen can also afford it (since they already have satellite TVs), and they stand to make the most from it financially. The possibilities are many. And it's not a problem of profitability for some, it's a problem of availability. Some could afford what their urban compatriots pay for internet, but that's simply not possible.
  - mobilefriendly 7y ago
    Yes! I live 90 minutes from Washington DC and have no land-based Internet access. Our community of 59,000 has probably just 65% true broadband coverage, from one cable provider. The FCC maps are a lie, they show my home and my neighbors as having access.
  - Robotbeat 7y ago
    There's a lot of misinformation about how visible Starlink is. The satellites are barely visible (and only in dark skies) in their operational orbits. Next-gen versions (with albedo reductions, which they've started experimenting with) will likely be operationally invisible entirely. This doesn't mean it won't be an issue for astronomy with incredibly sensitive instruments from which almost nothing can hide. SpaceX is working with the astronomy community to try to improve the situation for (especially) ground survey campaigns. As far as who will pay for it... SpaceX has lower launch costs than anyone else by a significant fraction as well as lower satellite costs (likely by a similar fraction). There are tens or perhaps (globally) hundreds of millions of rural users who these constellations would help, as well as some fraction of more urban users. Satellite internet already several billion in annual revenues from rural areas, in spite of the terrible service and high (expendable) launch costs. It doesn't take much for SpaceX to be profitable here; being a satellite service provider historically is much more lucrative than being a launch provider. The main unproven hurdle I see is user terminals, not the constellation itself.
    - sigstoat 7y ago
      > There are tens or perhaps (globally) hundreds of millions of rural users who these constellations would help, as well as some fraction of more urban users. indeed, even if you have a ground link, something radio based makes a spectacular backup. even if you've got one good high speed link available, it's unlikely you've got two whose failures are even slightly decorrlated.
    - shaklee3 7y ago
      The launch costs are nowhere near the most expensive part. By using leo they have cornered themselves into using technology that won't be available to consumers.
      - Robotbeat 7y ago
        Competitors OneWeb are using the same technology and have been more open about their user terminals. They claim $15 for a ~256-element phased array antenna: https://spacenews.com/wyler-claims-breakthrough-in-low-cost-antenna-for-oneweb-other-satellite-systems/ https://spacenews.com/wyler-claims-breakthrough-in-low-cost-... Even if off by an order of magnitude, that's well within the price range of consumer terminals.
- shaklee3 7y ago
  Where, just out of curiosity?

6nf 7y ago

> there should be some kind of international treaties governing this There are

rtsil 7y ago

It's a matter of perspective. I know people living in remote and even not so remote areas for whom cheap and easy internet access would literally be a live changer, and who wouldn't care less about astronomers having their work more difficult as a consequence, because, again, it would be a literal life-changing event for them in terms of personal safety, agriculture, income or education.

SiempreViernes 7y ago
Who will pay for that big complicated ball of light streaks so that the internet will become cheap? Is it those rural users currently aren't profitable enough to supply otherwise?
- rtsil 7y ago
  Based on the prices I've been hearing, yes. $100/month or less for a GB/s connection shared between dozens of houses or more. Or an astute entrepreneur will create a cybercafe or resell it. The small businessmen can also afford it (since they already have satellite TVs), and they stand to make the most from it financially. The possibilities are many. And it's not a problem of profitability for some, it's a problem of availability. Some could afford what their urban compatriots pay for internet, but that's simply not possible.
- mobilefriendly 7y ago
  Yes! I live 90 minutes from Washington DC and have no land-based Internet access. Our community of 59,000 has probably just 65% true broadband coverage, from one cable provider. The FCC maps are a lie, they show my home and my neighbors as having access.
- Robotbeat 7y ago
  There's a lot of misinformation about how visible Starlink is. The satellites are barely visible (and only in dark skies) in their operational orbits. Next-gen versions (with albedo reductions, which they've started experimenting with) will likely be operationally invisible entirely. This doesn't mean it won't be an issue for astronomy with incredibly sensitive instruments from which almost nothing can hide. SpaceX is working with the astronomy community to try to improve the situation for (especially) ground survey campaigns. As far as who will pay for it... SpaceX has lower launch costs than anyone else by a significant fraction as well as lower satellite costs (likely by a similar fraction). There are tens or perhaps (globally) hundreds of millions of rural users who these constellations would help, as well as some fraction of more urban users. Satellite internet already several billion in annual revenues from rural areas, in spite of the terrible service and high (expendable) launch costs. It doesn't take much for SpaceX to be profitable here; being a satellite service provider historically is much more lucrative than being a launch provider. The main unproven hurdle I see is user terminals, not the constellation itself.
  - sigstoat 7y ago
    > There are tens or perhaps (globally) hundreds of millions of rural users who these constellations would help, as well as some fraction of more urban users. indeed, even if you have a ground link, something radio based makes a spectacular backup. even if you've got one good high speed link available, it's unlikely you've got two whose failures are even slightly decorrlated.
  - shaklee3 7y ago
    The launch costs are nowhere near the most expensive part. By using leo they have cornered themselves into using technology that won't be available to consumers.
    - Robotbeat 7y ago
      Competitors OneWeb are using the same technology and have been more open about their user terminals. They claim $15 for a ~256-element phased array antenna: https://spacenews.com/wyler-claims-breakthrough-in-low-cost-antenna-for-oneweb-other-satellite-systems/ https://spacenews.com/wyler-claims-breakthrough-in-low-cost-... Even if off by an order of magnitude, that's well within the price range of consumer terminals.
shaklee3 7y ago
Where, just out of curiosity?