5 ms·

I can't agree more. Google has some of the crappiest support around. A few lawsuits and some really bad publicity might make them change their tune.

by zadkey 7y ago

Analemma_ 7y ago
> A few lawsuits and some really bad publicity might make them change their tune. I'm not sure about that. Google's crappy support is deeply, deeply embedded in their culture -- for all the benefits, it's one of the downsides of their PhD-heavy, engineering-first mentality, because engineers and academics loathe dealing with people, and to the extent that it's necessary for some system, regard that as a sign that system was improperly designed. Google would need a major culture shift to start having good support, and unfortunately it's the exact kind of culture shift that would anger and alienate a lot of Googlers. Don't count on this changing anytime soon.
- kunglao 7y ago
  That's one lousy excuse for a corporation like Google. This has nothing to do with them being PhD-heavy or engineering-first? (what engineering-first are you referring to btw?) The reason for this is the nature of their business. It's a calculated decision by them in terms of how much is worth spending on support without taking an actual hit to their margins.
LeifCarrotson 7y ago
"A few lawsuits" is an so much an understatement that it might as well be a lie. You'd need one out of every few (13.75) people in the USA to successfully bring a $5k lawsuit against Google to reduce them from highly profitable to break-even. Lawsuits and bad publicity only matter if they're more costly than ignoring the problem. If the company in the article successfully sued for the $5,000 they were being extorted over that wouldn't even matter. A few of those lawsuits wouldn't matter. A few thousand of those lawsuits wouldn't even matter. The European Commission last year issued a massive lawsuit against Google Adsense of $1.6 billion [1]. Google marked that EC fine down in its SEC filings on page 86 of their 10-K [2]. European Commission fees constitute an effective tax of 1.0% in 2019, which they add to various other factors for a total tax rate of 13.3%. Page 89 shows that Google revenue was $160B, while expenses were $40B. Google isn't moral, they don't see this fine as a mistake to be learned from. It's an operating expense. They won't change their tune unless it's more profitable to do so. [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_19_1770 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_19_... [2]: https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/20200204_alphabet_10K.pdf https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/20200204_alphabet_10K.pd...
- dhimes 7y ago
  Google isn't moral, they don't see this fine as a mistake to be learned from. It's an operating expense. They won't change their tune unless it's more profitable to do so. This is exactly how Microsoft grew evil.
- MichaelDickens 7y ago
  You don't need to sue Google enough to completely eat up their profits, you just need to sue them enough that it becomes cheaper for them to staff a better customer service department.
- goatinaboat 7y ago
  Google isn't moral, they don't see this fine as a mistake to be learned from. It's an operating expense. They won't change their tune We the community can fix this. Stop inviting Googlers to parties. Don’t go to their talks at conferences. Throw their resumes in the bin. Only when they know their behaviour is unacceptable will they start to get it.
  - LeifCarrotson 7y ago
    You're missing my point completely. When the complex system of people and laws and org charts and incentives and procedures that is the organism known as Google makes a decision, whether or not a particular decision is virtuous or not is insignificant. Even if it was, trying to change their behavior through occasional social interaction is as unlikely to make Google provide good customer service as brushing your teeth without water is unlikely to fix California central valley aquifer depletion. There's a system that rewards Google with billions of dollars and a system that sprays water into the desert that you're fighting against. Ignoring that system, and advocating that people pour emotional effort into ineffective responses, is so unhelpful as to be counterproductive.
    - dmix 7y ago
      It’d be nice if the anti trust people in the US looked into this as a factor. Anti consumer behaviour, not even non-customers as the usual case, but their own customers are being exploited by their monopolistic hold on ad publishers.
Gibbon1 7y ago
What I'm seeing is industry is doing the same thing to them that they did to Intel. Encapsulate them in a cyst like the body does to a parasitic worm. Basically all of their non ad ventures will fail due customers reflexively choosing their competitors products. Just like no one will pick Intel as a vendor outside of their core products.

I can't agree more. Google has some of the crappiest support around. A few lawsuits and some really bad publicity might make them change their tune.

by zadkey 7y ago

I can't agree more. Google has some of the crappiest support around. A few lawsuits and some really bad publicity might make them change their tune.

Analemma_ 7y ago

> A few lawsuits and some really bad publicity might make them change their tune. I'm not sure about that. Google's crappy support is deeply, deeply embedded in their culture -- for all the benefits, it's one of the downsides of their PhD-heavy, engineering-first mentality, because engineers and academics loathe dealing with people, and to the extent that it's necessary for some system, regard that as a sign that system was improperly designed. Google would need a major culture shift to start having good support, and unfortunately it's the exact kind of culture shift that would anger and alienate a lot of Googlers. Don't count on this changing anytime soon.

kunglao 7y ago
That's one lousy excuse for a corporation like Google. This has nothing to do with them being PhD-heavy or engineering-first? (what engineering-first are you referring to btw?) The reason for this is the nature of their business. It's a calculated decision by them in terms of how much is worth spending on support without taking an actual hit to their margins.

LeifCarrotson 7y ago

"A few lawsuits" is an so much an understatement that it might as well be a lie. You'd need one out of every few (13.75) people in the USA to successfully bring a $5k lawsuit against Google to reduce them from highly profitable to break-even. Lawsuits and bad publicity only matter if they're more costly than ignoring the problem. If the company in the article successfully sued for the $5,000 they were being extorted over that wouldn't even matter. A few of those lawsuits wouldn't matter. A few thousand of those lawsuits wouldn't even matter. The European Commission last year issued a massive lawsuit against Google Adsense of $1.6 billion [1]. Google marked that EC fine down in its SEC filings on page 86 of their 10-K [2]. European Commission fees constitute an effective tax of 1.0% in 2019, which they add to various other factors for a total tax rate of 13.3%. Page 89 shows that Google revenue was $160B, while expenses were $40B. Google isn't moral, they don't see this fine as a mistake to be learned from. It's an operating expense. They won't change their tune unless it's more profitable to do so. [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_19_1770 https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_19_... [2]: https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/20200204_alphabet_10K.pdf https://abc.xyz/investor/static/pdf/20200204_alphabet_10K.pd...

dhimes 7y ago
Google isn't moral, they don't see this fine as a mistake to be learned from. It's an operating expense. They won't change their tune unless it's more profitable to do so. This is exactly how Microsoft grew evil.
MichaelDickens 7y ago
You don't need to sue Google enough to completely eat up their profits, you just need to sue them enough that it becomes cheaper for them to staff a better customer service department.
goatinaboat 7y ago
Google isn't moral, they don't see this fine as a mistake to be learned from. It's an operating expense. They won't change their tune We the community can fix this. Stop inviting Googlers to parties. Don’t go to their talks at conferences. Throw their resumes in the bin. Only when they know their behaviour is unacceptable will they start to get it.
- LeifCarrotson 7y ago
  You're missing my point completely. When the complex system of people and laws and org charts and incentives and procedures that is the organism known as Google makes a decision, whether or not a particular decision is virtuous or not is insignificant. Even if it was, trying to change their behavior through occasional social interaction is as unlikely to make Google provide good customer service as brushing your teeth without water is unlikely to fix California central valley aquifer depletion. There's a system that rewards Google with billions of dollars and a system that sprays water into the desert that you're fighting against. Ignoring that system, and advocating that people pour emotional effort into ineffective responses, is so unhelpful as to be counterproductive.
  - dmix 7y ago
    It’d be nice if the anti trust people in the US looked into this as a factor. Anti consumer behaviour, not even non-customers as the usual case, but their own customers are being exploited by their monopolistic hold on ad publishers.

Gibbon1 7y ago

What I'm seeing is industry is doing the same thing to them that they did to Intel. Encapsulate them in a cyst like the body does to a parasitic worm. Basically all of their non ad ventures will fail due customers reflexively choosing their competitors products. Just like no one will pick Intel as a vendor outside of their core products.