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> I've been to Russia before the cold war ended. I've been all over the middle east. I've been to China. I've travelled all over Europe. I've been to Cuba and I

by felipe 16y ago

> I've been to Russia before the cold war ended. I've been all over the middle east. I've been to China. I've travelled all over Europe. I've been to Cuba and I've been to Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, Nicaragua. What all of these places have in common is that going there was a far more pleasant experience than going to the US. Oh, c'mon, this sounds very over-the-top. My experience is that TSA and USCIS (formerly INS) are very professional and follow a strict protocol. The protocol may be unfair or not, but that's the protocol, not the professional's fault. In places like Brazil your entire trip is at the hands of chance: Most times you get a nice officer, but sometimes not. For example: After an incident involving an American in Brazil [1], all Americans were out of a sudden required by the Brazilian authorities to get pictures taken at the Brazilian customs. The situation got so ridiculous, that at some point the airports ended up with 3 lines: "Brazilian Citizens", "Foreigners", and "Americans". In other words, Americans were singled-out from the rest of the world. Would the OP describe that as a "pleasant experience"??? I have had somewhat bad experiences in the US too, but that's not even close to the kind of stuff I (or close family members and friends) went through in Brazil, or as a Brazilian in Europe. In the US I never had any trouble, and officers always acted professionally. And I highly doubt this person would get compensated in any one of these countries. [1] http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/01/14/finger.gesture.reut/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/americas/01/14/finger.gesture.... Disclaimer: I am a Brazilian naturalized American.

die_sekte 16y ago
Brazil isn't part of the Visa Waiver program and felt that its citizens were being treated unreasonably. Thus, they began being rude to Americans. (IIRC) Kind of an asshole move, but highly entertaining to watch from the outside.
- ovi256 16y ago
  Brazil has a well-known tit-for-tat policy in foreign matters. They will apply to a country's citizens whatever policy that country applies to Brazilians. So Americans were singled out because they singled out Brazilians. It's called having balls.
  - yardie 16y ago
    Except they weren't singled out. Visa waiver program requires each member be at certain economic and political levels. Countries like Singapore met the requirement and are included, countries like Brazil, China, and India don't. This isn't elementary school anymore, you expect diplomats to act diplomats and get policies enacted, not come up with some stupid scheme even a 10 year old could see through. What the politicians should be doing is saying, "we want to be part of Vfw too, what can we do to get there?" and not, "the US gov't don't like us, so we won't like them!" Instead of trying to work closer together, this policy only makes the divide bigger. I was ready to go to Brazil for a vacation, but chose South Africa instead because of this silliness. To an American, not going to Brazil has very little impact on them. They'll take their money and go elsewhere.
    - forinti 16y ago
      Americans weren't singled out either. Brazil's policy is the same for all countries: the same hurdles Brazilians have to go through in a given country, citizens of that country will have to go through in Brazil. EDIT: Would Florida prefer that half a million Brazilians hadn't visited in 2010? It works both ways, you see.
      - yardie 16y ago
        Except, Brazil treats them as one issue when most other countries treat them as 2. Instead of going, "what can we do to encourage more Americans to come here?", and "how can we lower the US VISA requirements for our people". The former is an active discouragement, most Americans don't leave the US so putting $160 visa fee is a huge roadblock. The latter, is just misguided, it affects americans, but the people they should be addressing are the lawmakers and the state department, the people that actually write the VISA rules.
      - dailystatusrpt 16y ago
        On one short trip to Brazil, entering at GIG, I was singled out, had my passport held and told I couldn't enter and would have to return to the US. The Federal Police told me specifically and precisely it was for reciprocity - some Brazilians had been turned away in the US and so they were doing the same for me. They had no legal reason to deny me entry, it was simply because I am American.
davidw 16y ago
> this sounds very over-the-top It is from reddit, which pretty much thrives on over-the-top, especially if it's about how EEEEVIL the US is.
PakG1 16y ago
>> all Americans were out of a sudden required by the Brazilian authorities to get pictures taken at the Brazilian customs I'm curious why this would be such a hassle. I work in China right now and every time I go through customs, there's a little web cam there that takes a photo of me while the customs officer looks at my passport and stamps it. I think both foreigners and citizens experience it. Adds no time to the process at all. I even see my photo on the computer screen if the screen is angled right. Unless Brazil simply doesn't have the ability to set up this kind of tech....
- felipe 16y ago
  I also live in China. 1. In China the system is set-up for that. The little web-cam and the system are integrated with a push of a button, and the process is very quick. In Brazil they didn't have anything. They were taking pictures with off-the-shelf digital cameras, and I read an article saying that they did not even have a system set-up to transfer the pictures out! It was really something implemented overnight, clearly just to piss people off. 2. Sorry if I was not clear, but my point about the hassle was not much the picture itself, but the fact that Americans were singled-out and placed on a different line. This is borderline racist IMO. Note: Brazil eliminated this stupid policy a while ago. I mentioned it just as an example.
  - ovi256 16y ago
    Se my comment above, you completely ignore the reason for that policy.
    - felipe 16y ago
      As a Brazilian, I am well aware of the reason for the policy. Two wrongs don't make a right.
- dalore 16y ago
  They have that webcam picture experience in the US too, at least for non-citizens.
OstiaAntica 16y ago
Don't accept the protocol! It is degrading, the scanners pose a health risk, and it is all a waste of money with no benefit to security. America spends several times more on TSA that the entire FBI counter-terrorism budget.
kingsley_20 16y ago
I think that's kind of the point. The unpleasantness is institutionalized in the US, whereas it's random/haphazard in most other places.
gst 16y ago
"For example: After an incident involving an American in Brazil [1], all Americans were out of a sudden required by the Brazilian authorities to get pictures taken at the Brazilian customs. The situation got so ridiculous, that at some point the airports ended up with 3 lines: "Brazilian Citizens", "Foreigners", and "Americans". In other words, Americans were singled-out from the rest of the world. Would the OP describe that as a "pleasant experience"???" Why should Brazil treat US citizens any different, than the US treats Brazilian citizens? If the US harasses Brazilian citizens with such procedures, it is IMO perfectly OK if Brazil does the same to US citizens.
- pyre 16y ago
  Why did this get upvoted? You're dodging the point of the comment. You're logic seems to be: Person1: Bad things are happening in the US Person2: Well, bad things are happening in Brazil too. Person3: But it's only fair for the Brazilians to do bad things because the US is already doing bad things. The original article is griping about how bad things are travelling to the US, and how it's not that bad travelling anywhere else in the world. Someone countered with some examples of bad experiences travelling to Brazil, and then you responded saying that it's only fair for them to go tit-for-tat (which really has nothing to do with the original discussion).
  - gst 16y ago
    Nope. Someone commented that the situation in the US is actually not that bad, and that it's worse in Brazil: "Oh, c'mon, this sounds very over-the-top. My experience is that TSA and USCIS (formerly INS) are very professional and follow a strict protocol. The protocol may be unfair or not, but that's the protocol, not the professional's fault. In places like Brazil your entire trip is at the hands of chance: Most times you get a nice officer, but sometimes not." But that's not true. Travelling to Brazil is rather unproblematic for citizens of most countries. Only citizens of countries that harass Brazilian citizens are harassed equally. So I agree that related to the original article my comment was off-topic. But it's very on-topic in regard to the off-topic parent posting (because from a non-US citizen's perspective there aren't any problems when traveling to Brazil, but plenty of problems when traveling to the US).
dalore 16y ago
I would say as a non-USA person travelling to other countries is quite pleasant vs going to the USA, his statement is not over the top. I would the experience of a USA person travelling to other countries wouldn't be quite as pleasant as their is a lot of pent up rage against USA in other countries and when they get to meet a yank they have a chance to express it.
lemming 16y ago
"In places like Brazil your entire trip is at the hands of chance: Most times you get a nice officer, but sometimes not." In my experience, this exactly sums up travelling to the US.

by felipe 16y ago

die_sekte 16y ago

Brazil isn't part of the Visa Waiver program and felt that its citizens were being treated unreasonably. Thus, they began being rude to Americans. (IIRC) Kind of an asshole move, but highly entertaining to watch from the outside.

ovi256 16y ago
Brazil has a well-known tit-for-tat policy in foreign matters. They will apply to a country's citizens whatever policy that country applies to Brazilians. So Americans were singled out because they singled out Brazilians. It's called having balls.
- yardie 16y ago
  Except they weren't singled out. Visa waiver program requires each member be at certain economic and political levels. Countries like Singapore met the requirement and are included, countries like Brazil, China, and India don't. This isn't elementary school anymore, you expect diplomats to act diplomats and get policies enacted, not come up with some stupid scheme even a 10 year old could see through. What the politicians should be doing is saying, "we want to be part of Vfw too, what can we do to get there?" and not, "the US gov't don't like us, so we won't like them!" Instead of trying to work closer together, this policy only makes the divide bigger. I was ready to go to Brazil for a vacation, but chose South Africa instead because of this silliness. To an American, not going to Brazil has very little impact on them. They'll take their money and go elsewhere.
  - forinti 16y ago
    Americans weren't singled out either. Brazil's policy is the same for all countries: the same hurdles Brazilians have to go through in a given country, citizens of that country will have to go through in Brazil. EDIT: Would Florida prefer that half a million Brazilians hadn't visited in 2010? It works both ways, you see.
    - yardie 16y ago
      Except, Brazil treats them as one issue when most other countries treat them as 2. Instead of going, "what can we do to encourage more Americans to come here?", and "how can we lower the US VISA requirements for our people". The former is an active discouragement, most Americans don't leave the US so putting $160 visa fee is a huge roadblock. The latter, is just misguided, it affects americans, but the people they should be addressing are the lawmakers and the state department, the people that actually write the VISA rules.
    - dailystatusrpt 16y ago
      On one short trip to Brazil, entering at GIG, I was singled out, had my passport held and told I couldn't enter and would have to return to the US. The Federal Police told me specifically and precisely it was for reciprocity - some Brazilians had been turned away in the US and so they were doing the same for me. They had no legal reason to deny me entry, it was simply because I am American.

davidw 16y ago

> this sounds very over-the-top It is from reddit, which pretty much thrives on over-the-top, especially if it's about how EEEEVIL the US is.

PakG1 16y ago

>> all Americans were out of a sudden required by the Brazilian authorities to get pictures taken at the Brazilian customs I'm curious why this would be such a hassle. I work in China right now and every time I go through customs, there's a little web cam there that takes a photo of me while the customs officer looks at my passport and stamps it. I think both foreigners and citizens experience it. Adds no time to the process at all. I even see my photo on the computer screen if the screen is angled right. Unless Brazil simply doesn't have the ability to set up this kind of tech....

felipe 16y ago
I also live in China. 1. In China the system is set-up for that. The little web-cam and the system are integrated with a push of a button, and the process is very quick. In Brazil they didn't have anything. They were taking pictures with off-the-shelf digital cameras, and I read an article saying that they did not even have a system set-up to transfer the pictures out! It was really something implemented overnight, clearly just to piss people off. 2. Sorry if I was not clear, but my point about the hassle was not much the picture itself, but the fact that Americans were singled-out and placed on a different line. This is borderline racist IMO. Note: Brazil eliminated this stupid policy a while ago. I mentioned it just as an example.
- ovi256 16y ago
  Se my comment above, you completely ignore the reason for that policy.
  - felipe 16y ago
    As a Brazilian, I am well aware of the reason for the policy. Two wrongs don't make a right.
dalore 16y ago
They have that webcam picture experience in the US too, at least for non-citizens.

OstiaAntica 16y ago

Don't accept the protocol! It is degrading, the scanners pose a health risk, and it is all a waste of money with no benefit to security. America spends several times more on TSA that the entire FBI counter-terrorism budget.

kingsley_20 16y ago

I think that's kind of the point. The unpleasantness is institutionalized in the US, whereas it's random/haphazard in most other places.

gst 16y ago

"For example: After an incident involving an American in Brazil [1], all Americans were out of a sudden required by the Brazilian authorities to get pictures taken at the Brazilian customs. The situation got so ridiculous, that at some point the airports ended up with 3 lines: "Brazilian Citizens", "Foreigners", and "Americans". In other words, Americans were singled-out from the rest of the world. Would the OP describe that as a "pleasant experience"???" Why should Brazil treat US citizens any different, than the US treats Brazilian citizens? If the US harasses Brazilian citizens with such procedures, it is IMO perfectly OK if Brazil does the same to US citizens.

pyre 16y ago
Why did this get upvoted? You're dodging the point of the comment. You're logic seems to be: Person1: Bad things are happening in the US Person2: Well, bad things are happening in Brazil too. Person3: But it's only fair for the Brazilians to do bad things because the US is already doing bad things. The original article is griping about how bad things are travelling to the US, and how it's not that bad travelling anywhere else in the world. Someone countered with some examples of bad experiences travelling to Brazil, and then you responded saying that it's only fair for them to go tit-for-tat (which really has nothing to do with the original discussion).
- gst 16y ago
  Nope. Someone commented that the situation in the US is actually not that bad, and that it's worse in Brazil: "Oh, c'mon, this sounds very over-the-top. My experience is that TSA and USCIS (formerly INS) are very professional and follow a strict protocol. The protocol may be unfair or not, but that's the protocol, not the professional's fault. In places like Brazil your entire trip is at the hands of chance: Most times you get a nice officer, but sometimes not." But that's not true. Travelling to Brazil is rather unproblematic for citizens of most countries. Only citizens of countries that harass Brazilian citizens are harassed equally. So I agree that related to the original article my comment was off-topic. But it's very on-topic in regard to the off-topic parent posting (because from a non-US citizen's perspective there aren't any problems when traveling to Brazil, but plenty of problems when traveling to the US).

dalore 16y ago

I would say as a non-USA person travelling to other countries is quite pleasant vs going to the USA, his statement is not over the top. I would the experience of a USA person travelling to other countries wouldn't be quite as pleasant as their is a lot of pent up rage against USA in other countries and when they get to meet a yank they have a chance to express it.

lemming 16y ago

"In places like Brazil your entire trip is at the hands of chance: Most times you get a nice officer, but sometimes not." In my experience, this exactly sums up travelling to the US.