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I am not really a front end dev, but recently I begun to toy around with some front end work and after a few hours of research I decided to go with Vue. My reas

I am not really a front end dev, but recently I begun to toy around with some front end work and after a few hours of research I decided to go with Vue. My reasoning was that it seemed "lightweight" enough that you could use as much or as little as you needed. From those who know more, is this a correct appraisal? Do the other frameworks also allow you to pick and choose and only use small parts as needed?

brylie 7y ago
LiteDOM is only 3k and relies on web standards: https://litedom.js.org/ https://litedom.js.org/
BiteCode_dev 7y ago
You can use other frameworks the way you use vue but it's not advertised much. E.G: I teach reactjs by first starting with a simple script tag like you can do with vue. No webpack. No JSX. Suddenly students get it. No magic. It just makes sense. But this approach is not common nor first class citizen. What I like with vue is that the authors understand the value of scaling up, as well as scaling __down__. You can feel it in the doc, the API, the community... So yes, all in all, vuejs will be lighter to use, not because the others can't be, but because it doesn't judge you for wanting to.
- woodrowbarlow 7y ago
  i am not a frontend person but i had tried multiple times to learn react and angular. every time, i became frustrated in the tooling phase and gave up. like... geez, i'm having this much trouble already and i haven't even learned the first thing about syntax or reactivity. then i learned vue, and was able to build something in an afternoon. and, at the end of the afternoon, i had the tooling too. but the vue learning path doesn't teach tooling until after you get a feel for why and how vue can solve your problems. how it is taught is 100% of the reason vue found a place in my life. HUGE missed opportunity by the other frameworks, which are so eager to prove that they have the bells and whistles that they trip over their own feet trying to get people started. had i learned from you rather than from docs, i would be using react in my personal projects and never would have looked at vue.
duhi88 7y ago
Yea, that's why I choose it, too. It isn't as opinionated as Angular, but it has enough structure that you know where to look to find most things in an unfamiliar project (my gripe when working on inherited React projects). Rarely do I ever have to think about performance, and when I do, it is always complexity in the non-vue code, not the framework itself.
pier25 7y ago
> Do the other frameworks also allow you to pick and choose and only use small parts as needed? Generally yes. Vue is on the lightweight side of things until you start adding more stuff (Vuex, Vue Router, http client, etc). If you want a truly lightweight champion and are comfortable with vanilla JS check Mithril. In less than 10kB gzipped you get components, router, and an http client. By default it uses a hyperscript notation but you can use JSX too which is much better IMO. Here is a starter kit I made for Mithril with Webpack to get you started: https://github.com/PierBover/mithril-jsx-starter-kit https://github.com/PierBover/mithril-jsx-starter-kit
- k__ 7y ago
  "Vue is on the lightweight side of things" Vue is on the average weight side of things. Frameworks like HyperApp and Preact I'd consider lightweight.
  - pier25 7y ago
    Sure there are smaller frameworks but 20kB is not heavy either.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Scarbutt 7y ago
  Mithril's author moved to react long time ago.
  - pier25 7y ago
    I know he uses React but how do you know he doesn't use Mithril anymore? I'd use React too if I had to work on a big project where there are more important factors than performance and bundle size.
    - brlewis 7y ago
      For companies, React is mostly better. For personal and educational projects, or where startup time is key, Mithril may be better. https://en.howtruthful.com/o/react_is_a_better_framework_than_mithril_for_single-page_web_applications/656cb9d8604e65b245554683f10a72aa https://en.howtruthful.com/o/react_is_a_better_framework_tha...
s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
Unpopular opinion here, but Vue is a step backwards, I feel like people confused the familiarity of Angular with simplicity. I see why Vue was created, but I don't see why it's still around. React has solved the complexity pain points, it's easier to develop in React than Vue now (imo), and Vue has just been copying features. Not to mention the massive environment and cross-platform access (I don't see Microsoft making a react-windows-vue fork). Also, if you want a job, React is far more popular (look at the hiring threads) I would recommend Create React App using a TypeScript template. > npx create-react-app demo --template typescript edit: you guys can downvote all you want, I'm simply showing you the other side. I already use React, I don't care if you do or not.
- recrof 7y ago
  > I see why Vue was created, but I don't see why it's still around. React does not have low barrier entry. you can't just open notepad, edit blank index.html, include react.js via script tag and tinker with your html in 10 minutes to create simple widget - you need additional tooling, typescript compiler, etc. Vue is for people who used jQuery before and want to go reactive in shortest time possible.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
    Yes it does. https://reactjs.org/docs/add-react-to-a-website.html https://reactjs.org/docs/add-react-to-a-website.html You can choose how much React you want. You don't need tooling or JSX even.
- jordan801 7y ago
  I'm a Full-stack developer and I love Vue. The biggest thing that I love about Vue is your HTML doesn't need to be tightly intertwined with your JS. If someone needs to change an H1 tag of X-component I don't have to do it and I trust that an HTML (I don't even know what you call someone who exclusively uses HTML at this point) expert, can do it. I haven't developed much with React, but I suspect it has the same issues as template engines; pug, mustache, etc. That is, it's so intuitive to JS devs that simple tasks can no longer be performed by low-level HTML developers. Which means that some FE or FS developer is going to get tasked with menial data entry work when we need to rephrase a paragraph or header. I don't use TypeScript either. I don't really have issues with typing. I've been developing for almost 8 years, primarily with JS but also GOLang and PHP. Not sure if I'm doing something terribly wrong or what. But I haven't had a typing bug that takes more than like 10 seconds to solve, and they're rare. I do agree, the job market is overwhelmingly React. Might be because of React Native.
nlh 7y ago
Take a peek at Svelte as well. I've been a Vue.js guy for a while and Svelte feels like a breath of fresh air compared to it. (...which is not a knock on Vue! I still love Vue. But I'm starting to love Svelte even more.)
- jtms 7y ago
  I’m a react dev, but svelte calls to me loudly and often, trying to lure me over. It’s an oh so alluring thing that one
jtms 7y ago
Using the VanillaJS framework you can accurately estimate your target uncompressed package size after picking just the features you need. It has a handy estimation tool on their homepage - Give it a try! http://vanilla-js.com/ http://vanilla-js.com/
- brylie 7y ago
  How to handle reactivity with vanilla JS?
  - sleepinseattle 7y ago
    === checks

brylie 7y ago

LiteDOM is only 3k and relies on web standards: https://litedom.js.org/ https://litedom.js.org/

BiteCode_dev 7y ago

You can use other frameworks the way you use vue but it's not advertised much. E.G: I teach reactjs by first starting with a simple script tag like you can do with vue. No webpack. No JSX. Suddenly students get it. No magic. It just makes sense. But this approach is not common nor first class citizen. What I like with vue is that the authors understand the value of scaling up, as well as scaling __down__. You can feel it in the doc, the API, the community... So yes, all in all, vuejs will be lighter to use, not because the others can't be, but because it doesn't judge you for wanting to.

woodrowbarlow 7y ago
i am not a frontend person but i had tried multiple times to learn react and angular. every time, i became frustrated in the tooling phase and gave up. like... geez, i'm having this much trouble already and i haven't even learned the first thing about syntax or reactivity. then i learned vue, and was able to build something in an afternoon. and, at the end of the afternoon, i had the tooling too. but the vue learning path doesn't teach tooling until after you get a feel for why and how vue can solve your problems. how it is taught is 100% of the reason vue found a place in my life. HUGE missed opportunity by the other frameworks, which are so eager to prove that they have the bells and whistles that they trip over their own feet trying to get people started. had i learned from you rather than from docs, i would be using react in my personal projects and never would have looked at vue.

duhi88 7y ago

Yea, that's why I choose it, too. It isn't as opinionated as Angular, but it has enough structure that you know where to look to find most things in an unfamiliar project (my gripe when working on inherited React projects). Rarely do I ever have to think about performance, and when I do, it is always complexity in the non-vue code, not the framework itself.

pier25 7y ago

> Do the other frameworks also allow you to pick and choose and only use small parts as needed? Generally yes. Vue is on the lightweight side of things until you start adding more stuff (Vuex, Vue Router, http client, etc). If you want a truly lightweight champion and are comfortable with vanilla JS check Mithril. In less than 10kB gzipped you get components, router, and an http client. By default it uses a hyperscript notation but you can use JSX too which is much better IMO. Here is a starter kit I made for Mithril with Webpack to get you started: https://github.com/PierBover/mithril-jsx-starter-kit https://github.com/PierBover/mithril-jsx-starter-kit

k__ 7y ago
"Vue is on the lightweight side of things" Vue is on the average weight side of things. Frameworks like HyperApp and Preact I'd consider lightweight.
- pier25 7y ago
  Sure there are smaller frameworks but 20kB is not heavy either.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
Scarbutt 7y ago
Mithril's author moved to react long time ago.
- pier25 7y ago
  I know he uses React but how do you know he doesn't use Mithril anymore? I'd use React too if I had to work on a big project where there are more important factors than performance and bundle size.
  - brlewis 7y ago
    For companies, React is mostly better. For personal and educational projects, or where startup time is key, Mithril may be better. https://en.howtruthful.com/o/react_is_a_better_framework_than_mithril_for_single-page_web_applications/656cb9d8604e65b245554683f10a72aa https://en.howtruthful.com/o/react_is_a_better_framework_tha...

s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago

Unpopular opinion here, but Vue is a step backwards, I feel like people confused the familiarity of Angular with simplicity. I see why Vue was created, but I don't see why it's still around. React has solved the complexity pain points, it's easier to develop in React than Vue now (imo), and Vue has just been copying features. Not to mention the massive environment and cross-platform access (I don't see Microsoft making a react-windows-vue fork). Also, if you want a job, React is far more popular (look at the hiring threads) I would recommend Create React App using a TypeScript template. > npx create-react-app demo --template typescript edit: you guys can downvote all you want, I'm simply showing you the other side. I already use React, I don't care if you do or not.

recrof 7y ago
> I see why Vue was created, but I don't see why it's still around. React does not have low barrier entry. you can't just open notepad, edit blank index.html, include react.js via script tag and tinker with your html in 10 minutes to create simple widget - you need additional tooling, typescript compiler, etc. Vue is for people who used jQuery before and want to go reactive in shortest time possible.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 7y ago
  Yes it does. https://reactjs.org/docs/add-react-to-a-website.html https://reactjs.org/docs/add-react-to-a-website.html You can choose how much React you want. You don't need tooling or JSX even.
jordan801 7y ago
I'm a Full-stack developer and I love Vue. The biggest thing that I love about Vue is your HTML doesn't need to be tightly intertwined with your JS. If someone needs to change an H1 tag of X-component I don't have to do it and I trust that an HTML (I don't even know what you call someone who exclusively uses HTML at this point) expert, can do it. I haven't developed much with React, but I suspect it has the same issues as template engines; pug, mustache, etc. That is, it's so intuitive to JS devs that simple tasks can no longer be performed by low-level HTML developers. Which means that some FE or FS developer is going to get tasked with menial data entry work when we need to rephrase a paragraph or header. I don't use TypeScript either. I don't really have issues with typing. I've been developing for almost 8 years, primarily with JS but also GOLang and PHP. Not sure if I'm doing something terribly wrong or what. But I haven't had a typing bug that takes more than like 10 seconds to solve, and they're rare. I do agree, the job market is overwhelmingly React. Might be because of React Native.

nlh 7y ago

Take a peek at Svelte as well. I've been a Vue.js guy for a while and Svelte feels like a breath of fresh air compared to it. (...which is not a knock on Vue! I still love Vue. But I'm starting to love Svelte even more.)

jtms 7y ago
I’m a react dev, but svelte calls to me loudly and often, trying to lure me over. It’s an oh so alluring thing that one

jtms 7y ago

Using the VanillaJS framework you can accurately estimate your target uncompressed package size after picking just the features you need. It has a handy estimation tool on their homepage - Give it a try! http://vanilla-js.com/ http://vanilla-js.com/

brylie 7y ago
How to handle reactivity with vanilla JS?
- sleepinseattle 7y ago
  === checks