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Kroger (chain grocery store) is running paramilitary spy gear in parking lots

DHPersonal 7y ago
Is this like the Lot Cop system Walmart uses? https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/walmart-using-lot-cop-cameras-to-reduce-crime https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/walmart-using-lot-cop-camera...
mech1234 7y ago
I've seen similar towers at walmart. I usually park next to them to make it easy to find my car. Not really that different in application than the security cameras we've had for decades though, unless I'm misunderstanding something.
iamthemonster 7y ago
They just put security cameras on their own property, or on somebody else's? I wouldn't have an expectation of privacy in a store's parking lot, just like hopefully criminals would think twice about breaking into cars in the area. Are there special circumstances behind these security cameras that I'm not understanding?
- bilbo0s 7y ago
  Yep. People are being unreasonable here. Let's say Kroger didn't have security cams on their lots, and they were to hit the national news because the next Walmart shooter chose a Kroger instead. I bet the first thing the people complaining about having security cams in the parking lots would complain about, would be the lack of security cams in the parking lot.
_iyig 7y ago
What makes this “paramilitary spy gear?” It’s some portable security cameras positioned in a parking lot.
- crankylinuxuser 7y ago
  The company responsible: LiveView Technologies https://lvt.co/ https://lvt.co/ They specialize in surveillance gear for private and nation-state operations. They work with multiple federal TLA's, and also just announced a joint USA-Israel surveillance operations. I talk more of it here https://www.reddit.com/r/bloomington/comments/f4xv9t/info_on_krogentrified_spy_tower/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bloomington/comments/f4xv9t/info_on...
  - Jeff_Brown 7y ago
    Walmart sells guns; that doesn't mean everything they sell is a gun. If these are just cameras, does it matter where they came from?
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    ‘Nation-state’ doesn’t mean what you think it means. It’s not a fancy way of saying ‘countries’. It means one small subset of countries such as Japan that are both nations and states at the same time.
    - Bendingo 7y ago
      Hmmm. I didn't know this. What are some countries that aren't nations?
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        For example the UK is not a nation-state because it’s one state but four nations.
  - mattmaroon 7y ago
    So "paramilitary" is still a clickbaity exaggeration. Their website mentions Target markets such as state DoTs, retailers (specifically Lowe's), oil companies, construction. Hardly a roster of paramilitary forces.
  - seabird 7y ago
homonculus1 7y ago
I'm concerned iff they're networked.
- crankylinuxuser 7y ago
  They definitely are networked. This one is over LTE. I used a KerberosSDR to accurately triangulate and verify that signal was originating from that spytower. And they also to appear to have rudimentary "person", "vehicle", and other tracking, with an API to forward regions of interest to a more robust ML facial recognition algo.
  - homonculus1 7y ago
    Fuck.
  - someguydave 7y ago
    Wait, did you actually demodulate the LTE Signal? Or did you just treat it as a source of broadband noise?
Glyptodon 7y ago
Many if not most Walmarts in my area have these. I believe that stores are installing them when the amount of incidents they have with crazy/wild folks is large, as I've seen police at the stores with them rather frequently. This sadly seems somewhat corelated with nearby socioeconomics, but it doesn't change the fact that the things the police are getting called for are real. Like another poster I tend to try and park near one if I have to shop at a place with one.
1337biz 7y ago
How is a random clickbait Twitter post making it to the hn frontpage? This is just a random dude venting against Kroger putting a few security cameras on their parking lot.
souterrain 7y ago
If these are vanilla security cameras, this is a non-story. If, instead, this is the development of a trend of using cameras with live feeds to law enforcement, real-time facial recognition or license tag identification, I think it warrants discussion. Yes, these are on private property. However, aren’t there ethical issues around these technologies should they be employed, say, at every food store in a geographic area?

Is this like the Lot Cop system Walmart uses? https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/walmart-using-lot-cop-cameras-to-reduce-crime https://www.kshb.com/news/crime/walmart-using-lot-cop-camera...

mech1234 7y ago

I've seen similar towers at walmart. I usually park next to them to make it easy to find my car. Not really that different in application than the security cameras we've had for decades though, unless I'm misunderstanding something.

iamthemonster 7y ago

They just put security cameras on their own property, or on somebody else's? I wouldn't have an expectation of privacy in a store's parking lot, just like hopefully criminals would think twice about breaking into cars in the area. Are there special circumstances behind these security cameras that I'm not understanding?

bilbo0s 7y ago
Yep. People are being unreasonable here. Let's say Kroger didn't have security cams on their lots, and they were to hit the national news because the next Walmart shooter chose a Kroger instead. I bet the first thing the people complaining about having security cams in the parking lots would complain about, would be the lack of security cams in the parking lot.

_iyig 7y ago

What makes this “paramilitary spy gear?” It’s some portable security cameras positioned in a parking lot.

crankylinuxuser 7y ago
The company responsible: LiveView Technologies https://lvt.co/ https://lvt.co/ They specialize in surveillance gear for private and nation-state operations. They work with multiple federal TLA's, and also just announced a joint USA-Israel surveillance operations. I talk more of it here https://www.reddit.com/r/bloomington/comments/f4xv9t/info_on_krogentrified_spy_tower/ https://www.reddit.com/r/bloomington/comments/f4xv9t/info_on...
- Jeff_Brown 7y ago
  Walmart sells guns; that doesn't mean everything they sell is a gun. If these are just cameras, does it matter where they came from?
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  ‘Nation-state’ doesn’t mean what you think it means. It’s not a fancy way of saying ‘countries’. It means one small subset of countries such as Japan that are both nations and states at the same time.
  - Bendingo 7y ago
    Hmmm. I didn't know this. What are some countries that aren't nations?
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      For example the UK is not a nation-state because it’s one state but four nations.
- mattmaroon 7y ago
  So "paramilitary" is still a clickbaity exaggeration. Their website mentions Target markets such as state DoTs, retailers (specifically Lowe's), oil companies, construction. Hardly a roster of paramilitary forces.
- seabird 7y ago

homonculus1 7y ago

I'm concerned iff they're networked.

crankylinuxuser 7y ago
They definitely are networked. This one is over LTE. I used a KerberosSDR to accurately triangulate and verify that signal was originating from that spytower. And they also to appear to have rudimentary "person", "vehicle", and other tracking, with an API to forward regions of interest to a more robust ML facial recognition algo.
- homonculus1 7y ago
  Fuck.
- someguydave 7y ago
  Wait, did you actually demodulate the LTE Signal? Or did you just treat it as a source of broadband noise?

Glyptodon 7y ago

Many if not most Walmarts in my area have these. I believe that stores are installing them when the amount of incidents they have with crazy/wild folks is large, as I've seen police at the stores with them rather frequently. This sadly seems somewhat corelated with nearby socioeconomics, but it doesn't change the fact that the things the police are getting called for are real. Like another poster I tend to try and park near one if I have to shop at a place with one.

1337biz 7y ago

How is a random clickbait Twitter post making it to the hn frontpage? This is just a random dude venting against Kroger putting a few security cameras on their parking lot.

souterrain 7y ago

If these are vanilla security cameras, this is a non-story. If, instead, this is the development of a trend of using cameras with live feeds to law enforcement, real-time facial recognition or license tag identification, I think it warrants discussion. Yes, these are on private property. However, aren’t there ethical issues around these technologies should they be employed, say, at every food store in a geographic area?