6 ms·

I wonder how much longer it will take before americans get enough to take a stand about this. I suppose it would never reach critical mass with flying because

by danssig 16y ago

I wonder how much longer it will take before americans get enough to take a stand about this. I suppose it would never reach critical mass with flying because not enough americans are flying to care, which is why I can't wait for TSA to follow through with their plan to set up their nonsense at bus stops and subways.

jbm 16y ago
When the nonsense is done at limo stands and private jets, you will see a change. No politician is deaf to the voices of "the people", but it's a lot easier to get into speaking range when you can afford a professional lobby.
- patio11 16y ago
  It takes one phone call to speak to someone at your Congresscritter's office about this. They really do listen and, occasionally, even act on things which generate heat from constituents (ask any Republican who flipped on immigration circa 2007-2008). If you feel strongly about it, make the freaking call. (Or, better, write an honest-to-God on-dead-tree letter.)
  - tallanvor 16y ago
    I actually HAVE written to my senators about this issue, unfortunately I didn't even get the courtesy of a form letter in response - and they're both Democrats. I didn't bother writing to my rep since he's a Republican.
    - newguy889 16y ago
      Not speaking is a great way to not change anybody's mind. Also, your representative probably gets far less mail than your senators.
    - cema 16y ago
      Set your prejudices away and contact him. You may be surprised.
johnb 16y ago
Part of it is the motivation to return home. I'm Australian, and we've got a fairly intensive customs procedure, but I could care less, I'm an hour or less away from home now. Visting America was a different story though: I'm getting fingerprinted, and people are jumping queues, and the security is crazy... and all I'm thinking is "Why did I bother?" Waiting for americans to care enough about the discomfort of vistors (relative to motivation to be there) might take a while.
- rdouble 16y ago
  I'm Australian, and we've got a fairly intensive customs procedure Really? I brought a bunch of weird looking folding bike parts in a taped together laundry bag and got waved right though.
  - dtegart 16y ago
    They are mostly looking for foodstuffs, or anything that can introduce an agricultural or environmental pest.
  - brc 16y ago
    He means quarantine. If you had an open packet of oreos and some muddy boots, you'd still be there now.
    - wyclif 16y ago
      What is up with the Aussies and quarantine? Going from the US to SE Asia, you fill out a little slip declaring if you're carrying snails or orchids, and if you say you are not, you sail right through. No worries!
      - die_sekte 16y ago
        They had a small problem with imported animals and plants in the past ...
      - johnb 16y ago
buro9 16y ago
Most Americans aren't seeing this stuff. When I was married and my American wife got to join me in the queue I was in, and had to go through the same process that I went through. Well she was incredulous that she was being treated that way. Until Americans actually experience this, nothing will be done about it. I've considered that enough to think that a better way to approach it is to subject people to the kind of security that they subject others to. So that if Americans want to visit other countries that they are finger-printed, interrogated, X-Ray'd, delayed and otherwise harassed. Then when they complain point out that what is being done to them is a reflection of what they do to others, that is the only thing I can imagine might make them consider changing their ways... and I really am not living in the kind of world where I think this is achievable since European border control isn't going to start implementing this stuff on a per nationality basis. So it's not as if I really think this is feasible. As I've pointed out in the past, I also no longer go to the USA or do business there. When I am forced to have face-to-face meetings with Americans, I force the venue to be in Canada at a location I can get a flight to that doesn't require going via the USA (tends to be Toronto as direct flights from London are cheap and frequent). This works for me to the point that I no longer think about it until it appears like this on a forum and I remember that I don't go to the USA anymore... it's become subconscious. I just don't go to the USA because of the experience of doing so (not limited to border alone, but border is the initial impression and the worst).
- GFischer 16y ago
  "if Americans want to visit other countries that they are finger-printed, interrogated, X-Ray'd, delayed and otherwise harassed." That's exactly what Brazil is doing and mentioned elsewhere in the comments: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2234963 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2234963
- Lewisham 16y ago
  Most Americans aren't seeing this stuff. You mean most foreign-travelling Americans, who are a minority in comparison to the Americans that don't have a passport, as only 37% hold one [1]. Domestic flights are way less of a pain than international, if only because you don't have to go through Customs. [1]: http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2010/02/17/how-many-americans-have-a-passport-2/ http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2010/02/17/how-many-americans... EDIT: My American wife (I'm British) was the same way. I'm in the process of applying for a Green Card, which means we'll have to go to an INS office and both of us get our fingerprints taken. "Why the hell do they need my fingerprints? There's no way I'm giving them my fingerprints!" "Honey, they take my prints every time I come to the US."
gaius 16y ago
Try Sea-Tac airport. 20 lanes at the border, 17 reserved for American citizens, of whom there are probably about 20 on a 400-seater plane. I've traveled all over the world, US borders are the most unpleasant. I'v had border guards in FSRs point guns at me but hey, those guys are just doing their jobs. In the US they go out of their way to be rude, lazy, incompetent and just plain obnoxious.
- jasonkester 16y ago
  Or PDX, where Immigrations was so hostile that demand dropped to zero on direct flights from Asia and the airlines had to pull the routes. Evidently it was better to simply book your flight to SEA, wait for those 3 lanes, then catch a separate flight south to avoid the pain and suffering at the hands of the PDX border guards.
  - steveklabnik 16y ago
    Ugh, PDX. They treat Americans like crap on flights back from Asia, too. At least that was my one time leaving the country... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1682004 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1682004
- miked 16y ago
  I'v had border guards in FSRs point guns at me but hey, those guys are just doing their jobs. No one should ever, EVER, point a gun at someone unless they are prepared to shoot.
  - gaius 16y ago
    When a man with a swarthy complexion and a huge beard wearing faded camo gear shows up at your border and shuffles through a selection of passports before deciding which one to try, then hands you one that looks nothing like him, you can be a little suspicious ;-) Then again at another FSR border I was extremely drunk and insisting to the guard that despite what my passport says I was in fact Dutch and they just rolled their eyes and waved me through... I later bought a passport in that same country.
tallanvor 16y ago
Basically that's the problem. It's estimated that there are somewhere between 3-7 million non-military Americans living overseas, but that's less than 3% of the population. If the US had senators and representatives dedicated to those people, we would have some clout, but because we still have to have "residency" in a specific state, we aren't really large enough to have much political clout. Unfortunately most of the people who live in the US really don't understand the bullshit treatment that people get when entering the country. --It's not as bad for US citizens, but I still get questioned more coming into the US than any other country I've visited.

by danssig 16y ago

jbm 16y ago

When the nonsense is done at limo stands and private jets, you will see a change. No politician is deaf to the voices of "the people", but it's a lot easier to get into speaking range when you can afford a professional lobby.

patio11 16y ago
It takes one phone call to speak to someone at your Congresscritter's office about this. They really do listen and, occasionally, even act on things which generate heat from constituents (ask any Republican who flipped on immigration circa 2007-2008). If you feel strongly about it, make the freaking call. (Or, better, write an honest-to-God on-dead-tree letter.)
- tallanvor 16y ago
  I actually HAVE written to my senators about this issue, unfortunately I didn't even get the courtesy of a form letter in response - and they're both Democrats. I didn't bother writing to my rep since he's a Republican.
  - newguy889 16y ago
    Not speaking is a great way to not change anybody's mind. Also, your representative probably gets far less mail than your senators.
  - cema 16y ago
    Set your prejudices away and contact him. You may be surprised.

johnb 16y ago

Part of it is the motivation to return home. I'm Australian, and we've got a fairly intensive customs procedure, but I could care less, I'm an hour or less away from home now. Visting America was a different story though: I'm getting fingerprinted, and people are jumping queues, and the security is crazy... and all I'm thinking is "Why did I bother?" Waiting for americans to care enough about the discomfort of vistors (relative to motivation to be there) might take a while.

rdouble 16y ago
I'm Australian, and we've got a fairly intensive customs procedure Really? I brought a bunch of weird looking folding bike parts in a taped together laundry bag and got waved right though.
- dtegart 16y ago
  They are mostly looking for foodstuffs, or anything that can introduce an agricultural or environmental pest.
- brc 16y ago
  He means quarantine. If you had an open packet of oreos and some muddy boots, you'd still be there now.
  - wyclif 16y ago
    What is up with the Aussies and quarantine? Going from the US to SE Asia, you fill out a little slip declaring if you're carrying snails or orchids, and if you say you are not, you sail right through. No worries!
    - die_sekte 16y ago
      They had a small problem with imported animals and plants in the past ...
    - johnb 16y ago

buro9 16y ago

Most Americans aren't seeing this stuff. When I was married and my American wife got to join me in the queue I was in, and had to go through the same process that I went through. Well she was incredulous that she was being treated that way. Until Americans actually experience this, nothing will be done about it. I've considered that enough to think that a better way to approach it is to subject people to the kind of security that they subject others to. So that if Americans want to visit other countries that they are finger-printed, interrogated, X-Ray'd, delayed and otherwise harassed. Then when they complain point out that what is being done to them is a reflection of what they do to others, that is the only thing I can imagine might make them consider changing their ways... and I really am not living in the kind of world where I think this is achievable since European border control isn't going to start implementing this stuff on a per nationality basis. So it's not as if I really think this is feasible. As I've pointed out in the past, I also no longer go to the USA or do business there. When I am forced to have face-to-face meetings with Americans, I force the venue to be in Canada at a location I can get a flight to that doesn't require going via the USA (tends to be Toronto as direct flights from London are cheap and frequent). This works for me to the point that I no longer think about it until it appears like this on a forum and I remember that I don't go to the USA anymore... it's become subconscious. I just don't go to the USA because of the experience of doing so (not limited to border alone, but border is the initial impression and the worst).

GFischer 16y ago
"if Americans want to visit other countries that they are finger-printed, interrogated, X-Ray'd, delayed and otherwise harassed." That's exactly what Brazil is doing and mentioned elsewhere in the comments: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2234963 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2234963
Lewisham 16y ago
Most Americans aren't seeing this stuff. You mean most foreign-travelling Americans, who are a minority in comparison to the Americans that don't have a passport, as only 37% hold one [1]. Domestic flights are way less of a pain than international, if only because you don't have to go through Customs. [1]: http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2010/02/17/how-many-americans-have-a-passport-2/ http://www.theexpeditioner.com/2010/02/17/how-many-americans... EDIT: My American wife (I'm British) was the same way. I'm in the process of applying for a Green Card, which means we'll have to go to an INS office and both of us get our fingerprints taken. "Why the hell do they need my fingerprints? There's no way I'm giving them my fingerprints!" "Honey, they take my prints every time I come to the US."

gaius 16y ago

Try Sea-Tac airport. 20 lanes at the border, 17 reserved for American citizens, of whom there are probably about 20 on a 400-seater plane. I've traveled all over the world, US borders are the most unpleasant. I'v had border guards in FSRs point guns at me but hey, those guys are just doing their jobs. In the US they go out of their way to be rude, lazy, incompetent and just plain obnoxious.

jasonkester 16y ago
Or PDX, where Immigrations was so hostile that demand dropped to zero on direct flights from Asia and the airlines had to pull the routes. Evidently it was better to simply book your flight to SEA, wait for those 3 lanes, then catch a separate flight south to avoid the pain and suffering at the hands of the PDX border guards.
- steveklabnik 16y ago
  Ugh, PDX. They treat Americans like crap on flights back from Asia, too. At least that was my one time leaving the country... http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1682004 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1682004
miked 16y ago
I'v had border guards in FSRs point guns at me but hey, those guys are just doing their jobs. No one should ever, EVER, point a gun at someone unless they are prepared to shoot.
- gaius 16y ago
  When a man with a swarthy complexion and a huge beard wearing faded camo gear shows up at your border and shuffles through a selection of passports before deciding which one to try, then hands you one that looks nothing like him, you can be a little suspicious ;-) Then again at another FSR border I was extremely drunk and insisting to the guard that despite what my passport says I was in fact Dutch and they just rolled their eyes and waved me through... I later bought a passport in that same country.

tallanvor 16y ago

Basically that's the problem. It's estimated that there are somewhere between 3-7 million non-military Americans living overseas, but that's less than 3% of the population. If the US had senators and representatives dedicated to those people, we would have some clout, but because we still have to have "residency" in a specific state, we aren't really large enough to have much political clout. Unfortunately most of the people who live in the US really don't understand the bullshit treatment that people get when entering the country. --It's not as bad for US citizens, but I still get questioned more coming into the US than any other country I've visited.