4 ms·

Is a large part of this also a political issue? with subsidies and tax breaks on fuel the aviation industry is not really incentivised to innovate and cosumers

by jamil7 7y ago

Is a large part of this also a political issue? with subsidies and tax breaks on fuel the aviation industry is not really incentivised to innovate and cosumers are not incentivised to seek other modes of transport since flying is often the cheapest and fastest.

belorn 7y ago
Every single mode of transport is subsidized so its hard to say if air transportation is getting more or less incentives. Using Swedish numbers and some estimates. Tax on car owners only pay around 1/3 of the road network. The ticket price on train, according to a person working in that space, said that the ticket paid about 2/3 of the costs that the train company paid for any given trip. The train network also get infusions from time to time by the government, and stations are supported/built using local taxes and fees. Boats get tax breaks on fuel, and ports are usually subsidized when built. There might also be subsidizes involved in ice breaking, cleaning and management of the waters and channels around ports. Planes get tax breaks on fuel, and airports are subsidized when built. Out of those, I would guess that the train system is the least subsidized model but I have nothing to actually support that claim beyond a gut feeling. I would like to see a good summarize of what each sector get and where the money comes from.
- jamil7 7y ago
  Thanks for the detailed info. I honestly don't know the details well enough and hence framed my comment as a bit of an open question. This makes me wonder, in Germany it is possible to get a decently priced domestic train ticket or at least a comparable price to a domestic flight but one needs to book far in advance whereas this isn't the case when booking a flight. If it's not subsidies and taxes what is making train travel so uncompetitive with flying?
  - Leherenn 7y ago
    Infrastructure costs, they are absolutely massive compared to what you need for planes.
- Leherenn 7y ago
  I have no data to back this up, but I would say train is the most subsidised. The infrastructure required for trains, as well as the maintenance of those tens thousands of miles of tracks have to dwarf whatever tax break planes get on fuel. Plus airports scale much better than train stations, once it's built you're automatically linked by the most efficient route to everywhere else in the world.

by jamil7 7y ago

belorn 7y ago

Every single mode of transport is subsidized so its hard to say if air transportation is getting more or less incentives. Using Swedish numbers and some estimates. Tax on car owners only pay around 1/3 of the road network. The ticket price on train, according to a person working in that space, said that the ticket paid about 2/3 of the costs that the train company paid for any given trip. The train network also get infusions from time to time by the government, and stations are supported/built using local taxes and fees. Boats get tax breaks on fuel, and ports are usually subsidized when built. There might also be subsidizes involved in ice breaking, cleaning and management of the waters and channels around ports. Planes get tax breaks on fuel, and airports are subsidized when built. Out of those, I would guess that the train system is the least subsidized model but I have nothing to actually support that claim beyond a gut feeling. I would like to see a good summarize of what each sector get and where the money comes from.

jamil7 7y ago
Thanks for the detailed info. I honestly don't know the details well enough and hence framed my comment as a bit of an open question. This makes me wonder, in Germany it is possible to get a decently priced domestic train ticket or at least a comparable price to a domestic flight but one needs to book far in advance whereas this isn't the case when booking a flight. If it's not subsidies and taxes what is making train travel so uncompetitive with flying?
- Leherenn 7y ago
  Infrastructure costs, they are absolutely massive compared to what you need for planes.
Leherenn 7y ago
I have no data to back this up, but I would say train is the most subsidised. The infrastructure required for trains, as well as the maintenance of those tens thousands of miles of tracks have to dwarf whatever tax break planes get on fuel. Plus airports scale much better than train stations, once it's built you're automatically linked by the most efficient route to everywhere else in the world.