6 ms·

Japan’s Lost-and-Found System

74 points by leonagano 7y ago

tus88 7y ago
Japan is insanely good.
- Craighead 7y ago
  Locking a country down and being a homogeneous population has some benefits.
- tus88 7y ago
  This comment looks stupid due to unwarranted title change.
- ronsor 7y ago
  Japan is efficient, however their culture has many issues, including extreme working hours.
chubbyrabbit 7y ago
Just like most public systems in Japan.
thunderbong 7y ago
I've never been to Japan, but whenever I read these articles, I am reminded of the Japanese word 'Kaizen' which means to continuously improve your work. The way I understand it is to step outside of yourself while working and to see your output as to how it will be perceived over time and from an outsider's point of view and ask from that person's point of view what could be done better. I might be wrong, but to me, as a programmer, it is like seeing the code that I've written and see if it is simple to debug and simple to understand for people who will see it after me. A kind of stepping away from our creation. Previously, there was another article on this [1]. And the corresponding HN thread [2]. And also a wonderful comment [3]. [0] Kaizen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen [1] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200114-why-japan-is-so-successful-at-returning-lost-property https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200114-why-japan-is-so-... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22055867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22055867 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22061001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22061001
- tidenly 7y ago
  This might come off as somewhat pessimistic but I actually think Japan is one of the worst implementers of Kaizen anywhere. Japanese are famously conservative in how they work, with employees largely avoiding taking on any responsibility and spreading out tasks and checks. The end result being no-one really stands out, but also that no-one is ever really singularly "at fault" as every decision and check is daisy-chained. It's horribly inefficient but exactly what a lot of people want in their jobs here. Kaizen is an example of executives and people who occupy the top of the chain mostly just pontificating and getting high off their own airs and mostly empty words with no internal policies or actions behind it imo. Most famous example in the Japan expat community of this would be somewhere like Uniqlo or Rakuten - horrible places to work with CEOs who like to roleplay as the next Steve Jobs. I love this country, but these articles foreigners write without ever actually having worked in real Japanese companies with mostly Japanese natives always come off as a bit naive to me.
  - iCarrot 7y ago
    I'm under the impression that the "kaizen" philosophy is often about the product of one's work rather than the process. Off the top of my head, there are two examples: the Fujifilm digital cameras (where you may have a totally different camera than the one you bought, thanks to firmware updates bringing in new features) and the Shimano bicycle parts (where improvements continuously come to top-shelf product lines, then trickle down to cheaper lines).
  - bobthepanda 7y ago
    Whenever I've heard of kaizen in Western media it is usually applied to Toyota, who applies it in manufacturing. With the caveat that I have also never worked in a Japanese factory floor, that might be the difference between white and blue-collar work in Japan.
  - unishark 7y ago
    I've always felt that Japanese companies were very big on process because their management actually isn't very good otherwise. Promotions and status are much more based on seniority rather than merit. As for the people at the top, they do seem to have more than their fair share of god complexes. I notice this a lot with their academics too. The average japanese person is so respectful and humble, it's like they overcompensate when they are in charge.
WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 7y ago
As someone who lives in Japan I believe this is not a result of "Japanese people being more honest", but rather: - Availability. There are police stations (kobans) and officers on the street everywhere, just a few steps away from wherever I may find something. Turning in a lost item has no friction. All it takes is a few extra steps. In the U.S. there is huge friction - I would need to go out of my way to go to a police station and turn in something. - The general view of police and government as your "friendly helper" as opposed to enemies. Officers and public staff (at train stations, etc) are service workers there to help you. I can ask them literally anything - directions, store recommendations, etc - and it's totally normal. Turning in a lost item to some random officer on the street is just a normal. In the U.S., I try my best to avoid all people in police uniform. They tend to be unfriendly, not helpful, and their job is to see if I am doing something illegal - not to help me. While this may not be true, that is my perception. I wouldn't even trust them to actually take care of a lost item I give to them. And the fact that they're carrying guns doesn't make them look any more friendly/helpful. The definition of what "police" means in Japan vs. most Western countries is completely different.
- jefftk 7y ago
  This is how police are portrayed in many older American children's books. I don't know whether it was actually that way, though, or just aspirational?
- atonse 7y ago
  That is what we in the US call "community policing" which is how it used to be. The cultural image of a policeman used to be the overweight donut eating totally approachable "dad" type figure, look at pretty much any hollywood movie or show from the 70s or 80s. And since 9/11 the police have gotten a lot more militaristic. But police departments all over the country are TRYING to return to the idea of community policing. It'll take a while before we get there but that's absolutely where things need to be.
  - WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 7y ago
    That's interesting. Thinking about it a bit more, my current image comes from the fact that I never had "positive" interactions with police or government workers in the U.S. The only interactions I ever had with the police were when I did something wrong like speeding, or carrying alcohol outside. In Japan, kids constantly have small positive interactions with the police, government workers, or other people in uniform. They may greet or bow to you on the street, help with traffic, announce trains, etc. That contributes to the image that they are approachable and want to help you. If you grow up with that, you'll have a very different image of the police.
CaptainZapp 7y ago
What always stumped me is that there are virtually always lockers for umbrellas available (the exception being if they have appliances where you can wrap your umbrella into a plastic wrap before entering. That's mostly found in malls and department stores). Given that the standard plastic issue umbrella is sold in any konbini [7/11 et al]) for 500yen combined with Japanese honesty that always surprised me. Can anybody knowledgeable comment on this?
- WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 7y ago
  What do you mean by "lockers for umbrellas"? Are you talking about public spaces or restaurants? Maybe I just haven't seen them, but I'm really not sure what you are referring to. An umbrella may be 500 yen, but not getting wet when it's raining is priceless :) So, getting an umbrella stolen while you are in a store has a much higher cost than 500 yen.
  - kalleboo 7y ago
    https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/japan-umbrella-locker-600w-368497328.jpg https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/japan-umbrella-lo... https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2457/3970512928_4cff616efd_b.jpg https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2457/3970512928_4cff616efd_b....
  - mikekchar 7y ago
    It took me a while to figure it out too, but it's those little umbrella holders with locks on them that you can often see in the library or onsen. I've never once locked mine, but I live in the countryside :-) But I don't even lock my front door. I've had drunk neighbours come into my apartment in the middle of the night by accident. It's almost stereotypical. Sometimes I think living in the Japanese countryside is like living in a time machine... Edit: Funny story. When I first moved to Japan, I lost 33 umbrellas in 3 years. I couldn't figure out where they were going. Then at the morning meeting at work they said, "We have this huge pile of umbrellas in the back room. Can people please claim them?" They were all mine... Apparently in the morning after the staff arrive, they would put them in the back room so that it wasn't a nuisance to visitors. Since I live in Shizuoka where it barely rains, by the time I was ready to go home it was usually sunny and forgot about my umbrella. I never ever realised that it was just getting moved. Of course, by then I was indoctrinated enough in Japanese society that I was way too embarrassed to claim my umbrellas!
justlexi93 7y ago
My sister lost this wallet for a week and report to the police, then she got it back before we return home.
neom 7y ago
Shout out to Korea. On separate occasions I lost my cell phone and wallet - got them all back the next day.
reustle 7y ago
This reminds me of a cute story here in Japan about someone finding a lost acorn in a mall and taking it to the lost and found, only to find the mother and child there already asking if someone had turned it in. https://twitter.com/kiyotoshi_y/status/1179243144363331585 https://twitter.com/kiyotoshi_y/status/1179243144363331585
rawoke083600 7y ago
I live in South Africa, we have the exact opposite ! Count your blessings -Here nothing gets returned but they will go out of your way to kill you for your cellphone. -One of our past police-ministers had done away with specialised units (like child abusers etc) -He (Police minster) was also found not guilty of committing fraud, yet the party involved was committed of fraud. "Shabir Shaik" (go figure usually it takes two...) -Police routinely loose or just outright sell their own weapons. -Police will also sell weapons that are being turned it (The S.A government really wants to disarm all the law abiding citizens) -Police are routinely arrested for being part of the crime problem. From murders to drug trafficking -Very few ppl trust the police here. Count your blessings !
einpoklum 7y ago
Where the police is less violent and less biased against underprivileged strata of society, the probability of people thinking of the police as an institution which may help with such issues is higher. In many (most?) countries, an encounter with the police is something that makes you worried you will likely be talked down to, potentially held up, and potentially even locked up for the night, beaten somehow, arrested, have stuff taken away from you, and in some countries perhaps even shot.

74 points by leonagano 7y ago

tus88 7y ago

Japan is insanely good.

Craighead 7y ago
Locking a country down and being a homogeneous population has some benefits.
tus88 7y ago
This comment looks stupid due to unwarranted title change.
ronsor 7y ago
Japan is efficient, however their culture has many issues, including extreme working hours.

chubbyrabbit 7y ago

Just like most public systems in Japan.

thunderbong 7y ago

I've never been to Japan, but whenever I read these articles, I am reminded of the Japanese word 'Kaizen' which means to continuously improve your work. The way I understand it is to step outside of yourself while working and to see your output as to how it will be perceived over time and from an outsider's point of view and ask from that person's point of view what could be done better. I might be wrong, but to me, as a programmer, it is like seeing the code that I've written and see if it is simple to debug and simple to understand for people who will see it after me. A kind of stepping away from our creation. Previously, there was another article on this [1]. And the corresponding HN thread [2]. And also a wonderful comment [3]. [0] Kaizen: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kaizen [1] https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200114-why-japan-is-so-successful-at-returning-lost-property https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200114-why-japan-is-so-... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22055867 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22055867 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22061001 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22061001

tidenly 7y ago
This might come off as somewhat pessimistic but I actually think Japan is one of the worst implementers of Kaizen anywhere. Japanese are famously conservative in how they work, with employees largely avoiding taking on any responsibility and spreading out tasks and checks. The end result being no-one really stands out, but also that no-one is ever really singularly "at fault" as every decision and check is daisy-chained. It's horribly inefficient but exactly what a lot of people want in their jobs here. Kaizen is an example of executives and people who occupy the top of the chain mostly just pontificating and getting high off their own airs and mostly empty words with no internal policies or actions behind it imo. Most famous example in the Japan expat community of this would be somewhere like Uniqlo or Rakuten - horrible places to work with CEOs who like to roleplay as the next Steve Jobs. I love this country, but these articles foreigners write without ever actually having worked in real Japanese companies with mostly Japanese natives always come off as a bit naive to me.
- iCarrot 7y ago
  I'm under the impression that the "kaizen" philosophy is often about the product of one's work rather than the process. Off the top of my head, there are two examples: the Fujifilm digital cameras (where you may have a totally different camera than the one you bought, thanks to firmware updates bringing in new features) and the Shimano bicycle parts (where improvements continuously come to top-shelf product lines, then trickle down to cheaper lines).
- bobthepanda 7y ago
  Whenever I've heard of kaizen in Western media it is usually applied to Toyota, who applies it in manufacturing. With the caveat that I have also never worked in a Japanese factory floor, that might be the difference between white and blue-collar work in Japan.
- unishark 7y ago
  I've always felt that Japanese companies were very big on process because their management actually isn't very good otherwise. Promotions and status are much more based on seniority rather than merit. As for the people at the top, they do seem to have more than their fair share of god complexes. I notice this a lot with their academics too. The average japanese person is so respectful and humble, it's like they overcompensate when they are in charge.

WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 7y ago

As someone who lives in Japan I believe this is not a result of "Japanese people being more honest", but rather: - Availability. There are police stations (kobans) and officers on the street everywhere, just a few steps away from wherever I may find something. Turning in a lost item has no friction. All it takes is a few extra steps. In the U.S. there is huge friction - I would need to go out of my way to go to a police station and turn in something. - The general view of police and government as your "friendly helper" as opposed to enemies. Officers and public staff (at train stations, etc) are service workers there to help you. I can ask them literally anything - directions, store recommendations, etc - and it's totally normal. Turning in a lost item to some random officer on the street is just a normal. In the U.S., I try my best to avoid all people in police uniform. They tend to be unfriendly, not helpful, and their job is to see if I am doing something illegal - not to help me. While this may not be true, that is my perception. I wouldn't even trust them to actually take care of a lost item I give to them. And the fact that they're carrying guns doesn't make them look any more friendly/helpful. The definition of what "police" means in Japan vs. most Western countries is completely different.

jefftk 7y ago
This is how police are portrayed in many older American children's books. I don't know whether it was actually that way, though, or just aspirational?
atonse 7y ago
That is what we in the US call "community policing" which is how it used to be. The cultural image of a policeman used to be the overweight donut eating totally approachable "dad" type figure, look at pretty much any hollywood movie or show from the 70s or 80s. And since 9/11 the police have gotten a lot more militaristic. But police departments all over the country are TRYING to return to the idea of community policing. It'll take a while before we get there but that's absolutely where things need to be.
- WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 7y ago
  That's interesting. Thinking about it a bit more, my current image comes from the fact that I never had "positive" interactions with police or government workers in the U.S. The only interactions I ever had with the police were when I did something wrong like speeding, or carrying alcohol outside. In Japan, kids constantly have small positive interactions with the police, government workers, or other people in uniform. They may greet or bow to you on the street, help with traffic, announce trains, etc. That contributes to the image that they are approachable and want to help you. If you grow up with that, you'll have a very different image of the police.

CaptainZapp 7y ago

What always stumped me is that there are virtually always lockers for umbrellas available (the exception being if they have appliances where you can wrap your umbrella into a plastic wrap before entering. That's mostly found in malls and department stores). Given that the standard plastic issue umbrella is sold in any konbini [7/11 et al]) for 500yen combined with Japanese honesty that always surprised me. Can anybody knowledgeable comment on this?

WnZ39p0Dgydaz1 7y ago
What do you mean by "lockers for umbrellas"? Are you talking about public spaces or restaurants? Maybe I just haven't seen them, but I'm really not sure what you are referring to. An umbrella may be 500 yen, but not getting wet when it's raining is priceless :) So, getting an umbrella stolen while you are in a store has a much higher cost than 500 yen.
- kalleboo 7y ago
  https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/japan-umbrella-locker-600w-368497328.jpg https://image.shutterstock.com/image-photo/japan-umbrella-lo... https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2457/3970512928_4cff616efd_b.jpg https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2457/3970512928_4cff616efd_b....
- mikekchar 7y ago
  It took me a while to figure it out too, but it's those little umbrella holders with locks on them that you can often see in the library or onsen. I've never once locked mine, but I live in the countryside :-) But I don't even lock my front door. I've had drunk neighbours come into my apartment in the middle of the night by accident. It's almost stereotypical. Sometimes I think living in the Japanese countryside is like living in a time machine... Edit: Funny story. When I first moved to Japan, I lost 33 umbrellas in 3 years. I couldn't figure out where they were going. Then at the morning meeting at work they said, "We have this huge pile of umbrellas in the back room. Can people please claim them?" They were all mine... Apparently in the morning after the staff arrive, they would put them in the back room so that it wasn't a nuisance to visitors. Since I live in Shizuoka where it barely rains, by the time I was ready to go home it was usually sunny and forgot about my umbrella. I never ever realised that it was just getting moved. Of course, by then I was indoctrinated enough in Japanese society that I was way too embarrassed to claim my umbrellas!

justlexi93 7y ago

My sister lost this wallet for a week and report to the police, then she got it back before we return home.

neom 7y ago

Shout out to Korea. On separate occasions I lost my cell phone and wallet - got them all back the next day.

reustle 7y ago

This reminds me of a cute story here in Japan about someone finding a lost acorn in a mall and taking it to the lost and found, only to find the mother and child there already asking if someone had turned it in. https://twitter.com/kiyotoshi_y/status/1179243144363331585 https://twitter.com/kiyotoshi_y/status/1179243144363331585

rawoke083600 7y ago

I live in South Africa, we have the exact opposite ! Count your blessings -Here nothing gets returned but they will go out of your way to kill you for your cellphone. -One of our past police-ministers had done away with specialised units (like child abusers etc) -He (Police minster) was also found not guilty of committing fraud, yet the party involved was committed of fraud. "Shabir Shaik" (go figure usually it takes two...) -Police routinely loose or just outright sell their own weapons. -Police will also sell weapons that are being turned it (The S.A government really wants to disarm all the law abiding citizens) -Police are routinely arrested for being part of the crime problem. From murders to drug trafficking -Very few ppl trust the police here. Count your blessings !

einpoklum 7y ago

Where the police is less violent and less biased against underprivileged strata of society, the probability of people thinking of the police as an institution which may help with such issues is higher. In many (most?) countries, an encounter with the police is something that makes you worried you will likely be talked down to, potentially held up, and potentially even locked up for the night, beaten somehow, arrested, have stuff taken away from you, and in some countries perhaps even shot.