7 ms·

The Fantastic Mr. Dahl (2016)

51 points by indigodaddy 7y ago

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jacobkg 7y ago
After reading all the classic Ronald Dahl stories as a child I more recently discovered “The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar”. The titular tale is great entertainment, especially in light of the current trendiness of meditation. Another story in that book “The Hitch-hiker” is also good fun. On the other hand I would not particularly recommend “Skin and other stories” which I also discovered recently but did not connect with.
- dano 7y ago
  You might enjoy this book about his pursuits during WWII, The Irregulars [1] 1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FA0HXY https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FA0HXY
- namanyayg 7y ago
  I discovered Skin as a teen and it rocked my sensibilities. I still find it to have the best adult dark humor short stories. What did you not like in Skin?
billfruit 7y ago
When U.S. publishers altered his spelling, he demanded: “Do they Americanize the Christmas Carol, or Jane Austen?” Do they really?
justinator 7y ago
I like the stories in, "Over to You" - especially about going to Cairo to pick up prostitutes! But other than those young escapades, he doesn't come across as the most pleasant of people. He did basically make a living writing story after story of children in abusive relationships.
- layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
  Probably because he had his own share of abuse as a kid: “From 1929, when he was 13, Dahl attended Repton School in Derbyshire. Dahl disliked the hazing and described an environment of ritual cruelty and status domination, with younger boys having to act as personal servants for older boys, frequently subject to terrible beatings. His biographer Donald Sturrock described these violent experiences in Dahl's early life. Dahl expresses some of these darker experiences in his writings, which is also marked by his hatred of cruelty and corporal punishment.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Dahl https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Dahl
  - pacaro 7y ago
    It's interesting that the Wikipedia article on "fagging" — as the practice was known — paints a much rosier picture of the practice. When I grew up it was definitely presented as being demeaning and having no particular merits https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging
  - ianbicking 7y ago
    "Dahl expresses some of these darker experiences in his writings, which is also marked by his hatred of cruelty and corporal punishment." It's interesting that in his children's books it seems he still believes in moral reformation through cruelty and corporal punishment, as he frequently has the underdog do cruel things under the guise of knocking the other person down a notch, or otherwise cowing them into improvement. He doesn't just present it as justice or revenge, but as a kind of education, and specifically it's okay if the victim doesn't understand why they are being punished or that it is punishment at all. (I'm thinking of Matilda, The Twits, George's Marvellous Medicine, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the BFG, and probably others) I suppose it's no surprise that even when you hate your upbringing, it still becomes part of you and your moral vision of the world.
    - kick 7y ago
      Getting revenge is something that almost everyone in those situations wants to do; it satisfies deeply. What you describe is by many people called "hitting back," which is hard to see as something negative, and definitely not equivalent to what he went through as a child. "Bully beats victim," "Victim retaliates;" one is obviously less bad than the other. It's not like the victims in his story are hurting random, innocent people.
neonate 7y ago
He was also a spy. https://www.google.com/search?q=roald+dahl+spy&oq=roald+dahl+spy https://www.google.com/search?q=roald+dahl+spy&oq=roald+dahl...
- gregknicholson 7y ago
  He also endorsed antisemitism: http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160912-the-dark-side-of-roald-dahl http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160912-the-dark-side-of-r... > “Hitler didn’t just pick on them for no reason.”
  - chalst 7y ago
    > If Dahl had been a nice man, I don’t suppose he would have been able to inflict such refreshingly transgressive views on his young readers. Christopher Hitchens once wrote an essay examining the truth of the accusation that Dahl was an adulterer, bully and anti-Semite. “Of course it’s bloody well true,” he concluded. “How else could Dahl have kept children enthralled and agreeably disgusted and pleasurably afraid? By being Enid Blyton?” From "Roald Dahl’s troubling legacy - much-loved author stands accused of racism" - https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/roald-dahls-troubling-legacy-much-loved-author-stands-accused-of-racism-37508035.html https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/roald-dahls-t...
    - rsynnott 7y ago
      > By being Enid Blyton? Who, interestingly, had her own issues, which are far more visible in the actual books (I think it'd be hard to find anti-semitic themes in most of Dahl's kids' books): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enid_Blyton#Racism,_xenophobia_and_sexism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enid_Blyton#Racism,_xenophobia... (Blyton probably wasn't that much worse than was standard for her time, but largely lacked Dahl's redeeming qualities)
  - olah_1 7y ago
    I truly wish that people didn't swing between extremes on this topic. Surely we can acknowledge the truths of history while also not endorsing genocide. Is that too much to ask?
142 7y ago
Roald Dahl was a rabid antismemite. In 1983 he told a reporter: “There is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity, maybe it’s a kind of lack of generosity toward non-Jews. I mean, there’s always a reason why anti-anything crops up anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didn’t just pick on them for no reason.”
DanBC 7y ago
We need to remember that childrens books are mostly not bought by children, but by adults for children. Dahl is often in the "most read" lists, because adults keep buying the books. But when we ask children what books they love he stops appearing. (Sadly, this info is buried in old reports from "What kids are reading", which is hard to find now). https://web.archive.org/web/20140603135101/http://whatkidsarereading.co.uk/the-books-children-love/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140603135101/http://whatkidsar... If your child enjoys reading Dahl that's great, keep buying them. But there are so many books that are just better than Dahl and that don't come with all the baggage.
- lordfoom 7y ago
  >If your child enjoys reading Dahl that's great, keep buying them. But there are so many books that are just better than Dahl and that don't come with all the baggage. I agree there's a lot of baggage, but I'm interested in what books you think are "just better"?
  - DanBC 7y ago
    Anything in the Carnegie Medal short lists (and probably the long list too). For younger children anything in the Greenaway short lists.
- themaninthedark 7y ago
  My dislike for this class of censorship where we try and remove the works of authors for views they held and thoughts expressed working to make a society where we remove everything that makes us slightly uncomfortable in a manner that would make Captain Beatty proud, aside. I was unable to find neither the 1019 or 2018 report but I did find the 2017 report. https://doc.renlearn.com/KMNet/R60818.pdf https://doc.renlearn.com/KMNet/R60818.pdf Year 2 - Girls: The Magic Finger, Rank 9 up from 17. Year 3 - Overall: The Magic Finger, Rank 2 same as previous year. Overall: Fantastic Mr Fox, Rank 5 up from 6 Overall: George’s Marvellous Medicine, Rank 7 up from 9 Overall: Esio Trot, Rank 20 up from 37 Year 4 - Overall: The Twits, Rank 1 same as previous year. Overall: George’s Marvellous Medicine , Rank 1 up from 4 Overall: Fantastic Mr Fox, Rank 1 same Overall: The Magic Finger, Rank 4 down from 2 Overall: Esio Trot, Rank 5 same There are more listed, I don't have time to go through the entire thing but the reports seem to show that kids LOVE his works...or they did 3 years ago.
jgrahamc 7y ago
I saw him speak at the Oxford Union. He told stories of his childhood and was both dark and funny. He answered questions afterwards. Almost all the answers he gave insulted or ridiculed the questioner.
k__ 7y ago
I was thinking Ryan Dahl. "Wow, first he did Node.js and then also Deno! How does he do it?!" But, yes, the other Dahl is much more exciting! Thanks :)

51 points by indigodaddy 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

After reading all the classic Ronald Dahl stories as a child I more recently discovered “The Wonderful Story of Henry Sugar”. The titular tale is great entertainment, especially in light of the current trendiness of meditation. Another story in that book “The Hitch-hiker” is also good fun. On the other hand I would not particularly recommend “Skin and other stories” which I also discovered recently but did not connect with.

dano 7y ago
You might enjoy this book about his pursuits during WWII, The Irregulars [1] 1. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FA0HXY https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001FA0HXY
namanyayg 7y ago
I discovered Skin as a teen and it rocked my sensibilities. I still find it to have the best adult dark humor short stories. What did you not like in Skin?

billfruit 7y ago

When U.S. publishers altered his spelling, he demanded: “Do they Americanize the Christmas Carol, or Jane Austen?” Do they really?

justinator 7y ago

I like the stories in, "Over to You" - especially about going to Cairo to pick up prostitutes! But other than those young escapades, he doesn't come across as the most pleasant of people. He did basically make a living writing story after story of children in abusive relationships.

layoutIfNeeded 7y ago
Probably because he had his own share of abuse as a kid: “From 1929, when he was 13, Dahl attended Repton School in Derbyshire. Dahl disliked the hazing and described an environment of ritual cruelty and status domination, with younger boys having to act as personal servants for older boys, frequently subject to terrible beatings. His biographer Donald Sturrock described these violent experiences in Dahl's early life. Dahl expresses some of these darker experiences in his writings, which is also marked by his hatred of cruelty and corporal punishment.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Dahl https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roald_Dahl
- pacaro 7y ago
  It's interesting that the Wikipedia article on "fagging" — as the practice was known — paints a much rosier picture of the practice. When I grew up it was definitely presented as being demeaning and having no particular merits https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fagging
- ianbicking 7y ago
  "Dahl expresses some of these darker experiences in his writings, which is also marked by his hatred of cruelty and corporal punishment." It's interesting that in his children's books it seems he still believes in moral reformation through cruelty and corporal punishment, as he frequently has the underdog do cruel things under the guise of knocking the other person down a notch, or otherwise cowing them into improvement. He doesn't just present it as justice or revenge, but as a kind of education, and specifically it's okay if the victim doesn't understand why they are being punished or that it is punishment at all. (I'm thinking of Matilda, The Twits, George's Marvellous Medicine, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, the BFG, and probably others) I suppose it's no surprise that even when you hate your upbringing, it still becomes part of you and your moral vision of the world.
  - kick 7y ago
    Getting revenge is something that almost everyone in those situations wants to do; it satisfies deeply. What you describe is by many people called "hitting back," which is hard to see as something negative, and definitely not equivalent to what he went through as a child. "Bully beats victim," "Victim retaliates;" one is obviously less bad than the other. It's not like the victims in his story are hurting random, innocent people.

neonate 7y ago

He was also a spy. https://www.google.com/search?q=roald+dahl+spy&oq=roald+dahl+spy https://www.google.com/search?q=roald+dahl+spy&oq=roald+dahl...

gregknicholson 7y ago
He also endorsed antisemitism: http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160912-the-dark-side-of-roald-dahl http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20160912-the-dark-side-of-r... > “Hitler didn’t just pick on them for no reason.”
- chalst 7y ago
  > If Dahl had been a nice man, I don’t suppose he would have been able to inflict such refreshingly transgressive views on his young readers. Christopher Hitchens once wrote an essay examining the truth of the accusation that Dahl was an adulterer, bully and anti-Semite. “Of course it’s bloody well true,” he concluded. “How else could Dahl have kept children enthralled and agreeably disgusted and pleasurably afraid? By being Enid Blyton?” From "Roald Dahl’s troubling legacy - much-loved author stands accused of racism" - https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/roald-dahls-troubling-legacy-much-loved-author-stands-accused-of-racism-37508035.html https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/books/roald-dahls-t...
  - rsynnott 7y ago
    > By being Enid Blyton? Who, interestingly, had her own issues, which are far more visible in the actual books (I think it'd be hard to find anti-semitic themes in most of Dahl's kids' books): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enid_Blyton#Racism,_xenophobia_and_sexism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enid_Blyton#Racism,_xenophobia... (Blyton probably wasn't that much worse than was standard for her time, but largely lacked Dahl's redeeming qualities)
- olah_1 7y ago
  I truly wish that people didn't swing between extremes on this topic. Surely we can acknowledge the truths of history while also not endorsing genocide. Is that too much to ask?

142 7y ago

Roald Dahl was a rabid antismemite. In 1983 he told a reporter: “There is a trait in the Jewish character that does provoke animosity, maybe it’s a kind of lack of generosity toward non-Jews. I mean, there’s always a reason why anti-anything crops up anywhere; even a stinker like Hitler didn’t just pick on them for no reason.”

DanBC 7y ago

We need to remember that childrens books are mostly not bought by children, but by adults for children. Dahl is often in the "most read" lists, because adults keep buying the books. But when we ask children what books they love he stops appearing. (Sadly, this info is buried in old reports from "What kids are reading", which is hard to find now). https://web.archive.org/web/20140603135101/http://whatkidsarereading.co.uk/the-books-children-love/ https://web.archive.org/web/20140603135101/http://whatkidsar... If your child enjoys reading Dahl that's great, keep buying them. But there are so many books that are just better than Dahl and that don't come with all the baggage.

lordfoom 7y ago
>If your child enjoys reading Dahl that's great, keep buying them. But there are so many books that are just better than Dahl and that don't come with all the baggage. I agree there's a lot of baggage, but I'm interested in what books you think are "just better"?
- DanBC 7y ago
  Anything in the Carnegie Medal short lists (and probably the long list too). For younger children anything in the Greenaway short lists.
themaninthedark 7y ago
My dislike for this class of censorship where we try and remove the works of authors for views they held and thoughts expressed working to make a society where we remove everything that makes us slightly uncomfortable in a manner that would make Captain Beatty proud, aside. I was unable to find neither the 1019 or 2018 report but I did find the 2017 report. https://doc.renlearn.com/KMNet/R60818.pdf https://doc.renlearn.com/KMNet/R60818.pdf Year 2 - Girls: The Magic Finger, Rank 9 up from 17. Year 3 - Overall: The Magic Finger, Rank 2 same as previous year. Overall: Fantastic Mr Fox, Rank 5 up from 6 Overall: George’s Marvellous Medicine, Rank 7 up from 9 Overall: Esio Trot, Rank 20 up from 37 Year 4 - Overall: The Twits, Rank 1 same as previous year. Overall: George’s Marvellous Medicine , Rank 1 up from 4 Overall: Fantastic Mr Fox, Rank 1 same Overall: The Magic Finger, Rank 4 down from 2 Overall: Esio Trot, Rank 5 same There are more listed, I don't have time to go through the entire thing but the reports seem to show that kids LOVE his works...or they did 3 years ago.

jgrahamc 7y ago

I saw him speak at the Oxford Union. He told stories of his childhood and was both dark and funny. He answered questions afterwards. Almost all the answers he gave insulted or ridiculed the questioner.

k__ 7y ago

I was thinking Ryan Dahl. "Wow, first he did Node.js and then also Deno! How does he do it?!" But, yes, the other Dahl is much more exciting! Thanks :)