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> Started consistently covering 50 new words a day on Anki For anyone here who has used anki, that's a huge number. This person is really dedicating their time

> Started consistently covering 50 new words a day on Anki For anyone here who has used anki, that's a huge number. This person is really dedicating their time at this point, because 50 new cards/day very quickly snowballs and you're doing 300+ reviews daily. I did 20 reviews/day for ~6 months straight for Korean, and that took me 30-60 minutes, every day. Thinking about 50/day sounds utterly exhausting. It's a good thing a french 5k deck exists also, as they saved a lot of time on not having to make cards manually. On average a word entry takes ~1-2 minutes (I have to query 3 dictionaries), so that comes down to only ~45 words per hour... --- > I firmly believe that learning languages in school, especially in the United States, is generally extremely inefficient. This, so much this. Classes provide rigidity but having a tutor + finding people to talk with helps you out significantly more. I went to a language exchange that wasn't bad* where I was able to speak for 1 hour with 1 korean person, a teacher, who would point out my mistakes and write down words when I had to dip into English. My conversational ability improved dramatically after doing that for ~1 month. * Most language exchanges are shit. Because they're unstructured. People randomly filter in/out and a lot of people are shy or aren't sure what to do. It often devolves into a) "Any korean questions??" or just general conversation. Great for making friends, terrible for seriously practicing Korean. --- > As much as Duolingo likes to tell you this, 5 minutes a day of fumbling around with the mobile app isn’t going to make you fluent. I get why duolingo does this. At the same time, I hate them for advertising themselves as "the world's best way to learn <Language>". Not only is this not true, their Japanese and Korean courses were (still are?) notoriously terrible compared to their Spanish and French courses. Not that a language can be learned from 1 resource, anyways. --- > On the other hand, since I spent so many hours just casually talking with people, I got pretty good at having generic conversations. This is where I got after ~12-15 months as well. I can quite easily converse about basic things like me, my hobbies, work, etc for hours but as soon as the conversation delves into a niche like politics or just more advanced discussion, I falter pretty hard. Also describing things beyond a basic level is rough: "I like this, that" vs "The mood of the film was twisted but exhilarating". --- What I find interesting here is how far one can progress in only 12 months with a language like Spanish or French (with a mother tongue of English). For Korean, I wasn't even remotely close to understanding things like news articles at 12 months of study. I'm still not, because that vocabulary is quite advanced and not really used in regular conversations that much. The simple truth for learning a language is as the author here mentioned: consistent and diligent studying, with humility. There is no shortcut, no one app that does it all. You just have to study, and be able to honestly evaluate yourself and your mistakes. (Recording yourself speaking the language greatly helps here).

neom 7y ago
How's your Korean now? Any other tips for Korean? I spent 4 months in Korea and really want to learn the language, but it seems impossibly difficult. 감사합니다 :(
- andrewzah 7y ago
  Well, the good news is that its not impossibly difficult! Just very difficult. ;-) As the Koreans say, 화이팅! (Fighting!) Korean isn't that different from other languages, really. It's difficult for English speakers because there aren't really any commonalities besides random loanwords. And it uses the SOV (subject object verb) pattern instead of SVO. Hangeul was designed to be easy to learn, so unlike Japanese, you'll always be able to read/pronounce any Korean text... even if you don't know what it means. In some ways Korean is actually easier than, say, German (der/die/das tables, anyone?). The only thing I would say is make sure you focus on good pronunciation. Korean is very particular about mouth shapes and tongue positions. Many Americans especially come off with an accent because they neglect to put their tongue in the right spot. TalkToMeInKorean has a video course for ~$10, highly worth it. Also, do not romanize! Only use 한글. For example, ㄱ is NOT g/k, it's simply ㄱ. Those are only meant as reference points for brand new learners. Romanizations will only impede your progress for pronunciation. --- I would say I'm intermediate in speaking, high intermediate in writing/reading, low intermediate in listening. That is to say, I can converse in Korean somewhat easily for a few hours as long as the topics are relatively basic. Like my occupation, hobbies, what I like, and so on. Listening is still very difficult for "real" conversations, because of dialects, abbreviations/contractions, slang, etc. I can listen to textbook conversations and drama dialogues much more easily. I pretty much only text my friends in Korean. --- There are 3 major players for korean learning resources right now, and a few smaller ones: 1) Go!Billy Korean. This guy is really good at korean and IMO is the best at explaining things in a clear manner. He has a youtube channel [0] as well as a website [1] with free PDFs of his lessons. He does a livestream every sunday, but he takes those ~2h videos and condenses them into shorter videos as well. He also has a textbook series which many people like. 2) HowToStudyKorean.com. This is mainly what I used when I started. This guy (over)explains sometimes but there is an incredible amount of material here. The only issue is the lesson order is kinda wack sometimes. I followed it linearly, but I read ahead if I wanted to learn that specific grammar point. I.e. how to say "because", etc. 3) TalkToMeInKorean.com. They have a youtube channel [2] and publish books. I have spent like $130+ on their books so feel free to ask a question about a particular one. The Beginner/Intermediate Korean Conversations books are really good. Aside from these main resources, I recommend the Korean Grammar In Use textbooks. The beginner one has a good selection of grammar points. However, the main resources I mentioned pretty much cover the same beginner grammar points for free, so this book isn't strictly necessary. IMO the advanced one is worth it. Other youtube channels I like: Dingo Story [11] has drama clips, around 10-15 minutes. WBKT Yujin [12] does lessons and listening practice, around intermediate+ level. Apps: ignore duolingo/lingodeer, they have issues with spacing and teaching formality levels. Sejong Beginner Grammar (세종 문법 초급) is good, it has audio as well [3]. It supports android & ios. --- Dictionaries: endic.naver.com and krdict.korean.go.kr are the main dictionaries. krdict is better but a bit slower. There's also a hanja dictinoary at hanja.dict.naver.com, but as a beginner do not start studying that stuff. It'll only complicate things. Once you're at least intermediate or so, howtostudykorean also has a hanja course [17]. --- Vocab: use Anki [4]. Anki is a spaced repetition flashcards app. The pc/mac/android apps are free, the ios app is $20, which supports the developer. I cannot recommend anki enough for brute-forcing vocab acquisition. I have written about anki here [5] [6], but the manual [7] is also good. Evita's Korean Deck [8] has almost 6k words, sorted by usage. I highly recommend using this deck, at least for the first ~5-6 months of study. The main issue with this deck is it starts to put multiple definitions on one card, which is a no-no for spaced repetition. There is also a grammar deck with sentences+audio [9], which may be of use once you study a bit more. At some point you'll want to start maintaining your own deck, inputting vocabulary that you discover from Korean tv shows, books, webtoons, etc. --- Native Media: there are plenty of korean dramas. These are recommended because the actors usually focus on clear pronunciation and standard language. There are a lot of comedy/variety shows like Running Man (런닝맨), Knowing Bros. (아는 형님), New Journey to the West (신서유기). Even if you can't follow along much, you can still watch them and write down words you see. I bet you probably know this but Korean tv shows put text on the screen about once per second, so its a good way to pick up random vocab words. Webtoons [10] are also great, once you are around high intermediate / advanced. Webtoon authors frequently use nonstandard language, dialects, or make mistakes so I don't recommend it for beginners. --- Practice: Hello Talk [13] is pretty good for finding people to talk to. However the real selling point is facebook-like posts: You can post longer stuff and Koreans can correct it! My Korean friends literally never correct my Korean (it gets awkward) so I have to use this to practice longer writing. Just be mindful that some people do try to date on there. As a guy I don't really face that but some of my friends have to block people. Tandem [14] also exists but I haven't tried it. --- Tutoring: Many people recommend tutors from italki [15]. I'm going to try it soon. My friend has a tutor that types up transcripts of their conversations and points out errors, etc. I feel that at some point, you need a personal tutor to help you fix personal issues that you may not notice. --- Language exchanges: They're not that good for actually practicing Korean, as most of them are not structured. So people just show up and just end up having conversations in English. They are good for making korean friends, though. Just be mindful to communicate that you want to practice Korean specifically, and that might mean you guys swap from English (30 mins) to Korean (30 mins), etc. I just text all my korean friends in Korean unless they specifically ask to split. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ For Seoul specifically, there is a GREAT exchange near 이대역 called MingleCup [16]. This one is highly structured, and you can get 1-on-1 with a korean teacher for 1 hour! The tradeoff is after that hour, you speak English with different rotating groups of people. (The koreans are coming there to learn English, after all). Its a super fun way to meet people and make friends. --- This is all I can think of off the top of my head. Feel free to email me with further questions. I'm also part of the Let's Learn Korean! discord: https://discord.gg/e3H9Pde https://discord.gg/e3H9Pde There are a lot of knowledgeable students and native speakers there, and its where I got most of these resources from. I'm also working on a website that compiles all these resources + a grammar search tool into a one stop shop. --- [0]: https://www.youtube.com/user/GoBillyKorean https://www.youtube.com/user/GoBillyKorean [1]: https://gobillykorean.com/ https://gobillykorean.com/ [2]: https://www.youtube.com/user/talktomeinkorean https://www.youtube.com/user/talktomeinkorean [3]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.org.kingsejong.grammarbasic&hl=ko https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.org.kingse... [4]: https://apps.ankiweb.net/ https://apps.ankiweb.net/ (Be careful, there is a copycat at https://www.ankiapp.com/ https://www.ankiapp.com/ which is NOT the same). [5]: https://andrewzah.com/posts/things-to-avoid-with-anki/ https://andrewzah.com/posts/things-to-avoid-with-anki/ [6]: https://andrewzah.com/posts/better-anki-usage-guide-2019/ https://andrewzah.com/posts/better-anki-usage-guide-2019/ [7]: https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html [8]: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/4066961604 https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/4066961604 [9]: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/3614346923 https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/3614346923 [10]: https://comic.naver.com/index.nhn https://comic.naver.com/index.nhn [11]: https://www.youtube.com/user/moncastwebdong https://www.youtube.com/user/moncastwebdong [12]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-SYbQJvveakVdU36w2kIcg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-SYbQJvveakVdU36w2kIcg [13]: https://www.hellotalk.com/ https://www.hellotalk.com/ [14]: https://www.tandem.net/ https://www.tandem.net/ [15]: https://www.italki.com/ https://www.italki.com/ [16]: http://minglecup.com http://minglecup.com [17]: https://www.howtostudykorean.com/hanja-unit-1-lessons-1-20/ https://www.howtostudykorean.com/hanja-unit-1-lessons-1-20/

neom 7y ago

How's your Korean now? Any other tips for Korean? I spent 4 months in Korea and really want to learn the language, but it seems impossibly difficult. 감사합니다 :(

andrewzah 7y ago
Well, the good news is that its not impossibly difficult! Just very difficult. ;-) As the Koreans say, 화이팅! (Fighting!) Korean isn't that different from other languages, really. It's difficult for English speakers because there aren't really any commonalities besides random loanwords. And it uses the SOV (subject object verb) pattern instead of SVO. Hangeul was designed to be easy to learn, so unlike Japanese, you'll always be able to read/pronounce any Korean text... even if you don't know what it means. In some ways Korean is actually easier than, say, German (der/die/das tables, anyone?). The only thing I would say is make sure you focus on good pronunciation. Korean is very particular about mouth shapes and tongue positions. Many Americans especially come off with an accent because they neglect to put their tongue in the right spot. TalkToMeInKorean has a video course for ~$10, highly worth it. Also, do not romanize! Only use 한글. For example, ㄱ is NOT g/k, it's simply ㄱ. Those are only meant as reference points for brand new learners. Romanizations will only impede your progress for pronunciation. --- I would say I'm intermediate in speaking, high intermediate in writing/reading, low intermediate in listening. That is to say, I can converse in Korean somewhat easily for a few hours as long as the topics are relatively basic. Like my occupation, hobbies, what I like, and so on. Listening is still very difficult for "real" conversations, because of dialects, abbreviations/contractions, slang, etc. I can listen to textbook conversations and drama dialogues much more easily. I pretty much only text my friends in Korean. --- There are 3 major players for korean learning resources right now, and a few smaller ones: 1) Go!Billy Korean. This guy is really good at korean and IMO is the best at explaining things in a clear manner. He has a youtube channel [0] as well as a website [1] with free PDFs of his lessons. He does a livestream every sunday, but he takes those ~2h videos and condenses them into shorter videos as well. He also has a textbook series which many people like. 2) HowToStudyKorean.com. This is mainly what I used when I started. This guy (over)explains sometimes but there is an incredible amount of material here. The only issue is the lesson order is kinda wack sometimes. I followed it linearly, but I read ahead if I wanted to learn that specific grammar point. I.e. how to say "because", etc. 3) TalkToMeInKorean.com. They have a youtube channel [2] and publish books. I have spent like $130+ on their books so feel free to ask a question about a particular one. The Beginner/Intermediate Korean Conversations books are really good. Aside from these main resources, I recommend the Korean Grammar In Use textbooks. The beginner one has a good selection of grammar points. However, the main resources I mentioned pretty much cover the same beginner grammar points for free, so this book isn't strictly necessary. IMO the advanced one is worth it. Other youtube channels I like: Dingo Story [11] has drama clips, around 10-15 minutes. WBKT Yujin [12] does lessons and listening practice, around intermediate+ level. Apps: ignore duolingo/lingodeer, they have issues with spacing and teaching formality levels. Sejong Beginner Grammar (세종 문법 초급) is good, it has audio as well [3]. It supports android & ios. --- Dictionaries: endic.naver.com and krdict.korean.go.kr are the main dictionaries. krdict is better but a bit slower. There's also a hanja dictinoary at hanja.dict.naver.com, but as a beginner do not start studying that stuff. It'll only complicate things. Once you're at least intermediate or so, howtostudykorean also has a hanja course [17]. --- Vocab: use Anki [4]. Anki is a spaced repetition flashcards app. The pc/mac/android apps are free, the ios app is $20, which supports the developer. I cannot recommend anki enough for brute-forcing vocab acquisition. I have written about anki here [5] [6], but the manual [7] is also good. Evita's Korean Deck [8] has almost 6k words, sorted by usage. I highly recommend using this deck, at least for the first ~5-6 months of study. The main issue with this deck is it starts to put multiple definitions on one card, which is a no-no for spaced repetition. There is also a grammar deck with sentences+audio [9], which may be of use once you study a bit more. At some point you'll want to start maintaining your own deck, inputting vocabulary that you discover from Korean tv shows, books, webtoons, etc. --- Native Media: there are plenty of korean dramas. These are recommended because the actors usually focus on clear pronunciation and standard language. There are a lot of comedy/variety shows like Running Man (런닝맨), Knowing Bros. (아는 형님), New Journey to the West (신서유기). Even if you can't follow along much, you can still watch them and write down words you see. I bet you probably know this but Korean tv shows put text on the screen about once per second, so its a good way to pick up random vocab words. Webtoons [10] are also great, once you are around high intermediate / advanced. Webtoon authors frequently use nonstandard language, dialects, or make mistakes so I don't recommend it for beginners. --- Practice: Hello Talk [13] is pretty good for finding people to talk to. However the real selling point is facebook-like posts: You can post longer stuff and Koreans can correct it! My Korean friends literally never correct my Korean (it gets awkward) so I have to use this to practice longer writing. Just be mindful that some people do try to date on there. As a guy I don't really face that but some of my friends have to block people. Tandem [14] also exists but I haven't tried it. --- Tutoring: Many people recommend tutors from italki [15]. I'm going to try it soon. My friend has a tutor that types up transcripts of their conversations and points out errors, etc. I feel that at some point, you need a personal tutor to help you fix personal issues that you may not notice. --- Language exchanges: They're not that good for actually practicing Korean, as most of them are not structured. So people just show up and just end up having conversations in English. They are good for making korean friends, though. Just be mindful to communicate that you want to practice Korean specifically, and that might mean you guys swap from English (30 mins) to Korean (30 mins), etc. I just text all my korean friends in Korean unless they specifically ask to split. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ For Seoul specifically, there is a GREAT exchange near 이대역 called MingleCup [16]. This one is highly structured, and you can get 1-on-1 with a korean teacher for 1 hour! The tradeoff is after that hour, you speak English with different rotating groups of people. (The koreans are coming there to learn English, after all). Its a super fun way to meet people and make friends. --- This is all I can think of off the top of my head. Feel free to email me with further questions. I'm also part of the Let's Learn Korean! discord: https://discord.gg/e3H9Pde https://discord.gg/e3H9Pde There are a lot of knowledgeable students and native speakers there, and its where I got most of these resources from. I'm also working on a website that compiles all these resources + a grammar search tool into a one stop shop. --- [0]: https://www.youtube.com/user/GoBillyKorean https://www.youtube.com/user/GoBillyKorean [1]: https://gobillykorean.com/ https://gobillykorean.com/ [2]: https://www.youtube.com/user/talktomeinkorean https://www.youtube.com/user/talktomeinkorean [3]: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.org.kingsejong.grammarbasic&hl=ko https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=air.org.kingse... [4]: https://apps.ankiweb.net/ https://apps.ankiweb.net/ (Be careful, there is a copycat at https://www.ankiapp.com/ https://www.ankiapp.com/ which is NOT the same). [5]: https://andrewzah.com/posts/things-to-avoid-with-anki/ https://andrewzah.com/posts/things-to-avoid-with-anki/ [6]: https://andrewzah.com/posts/better-anki-usage-guide-2019/ https://andrewzah.com/posts/better-anki-usage-guide-2019/ [7]: https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html [8]: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/4066961604 https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/4066961604 [9]: https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/3614346923 https://ankiweb.net/shared/info/3614346923 [10]: https://comic.naver.com/index.nhn https://comic.naver.com/index.nhn [11]: https://www.youtube.com/user/moncastwebdong https://www.youtube.com/user/moncastwebdong [12]: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-SYbQJvveakVdU36w2kIcg https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-SYbQJvveakVdU36w2kIcg [13]: https://www.hellotalk.com/ https://www.hellotalk.com/ [14]: https://www.tandem.net/ https://www.tandem.net/ [15]: https://www.italki.com/ https://www.italki.com/ [16]: http://minglecup.com http://minglecup.com [17]: https://www.howtostudykorean.com/hanja-unit-1-lessons-1-20/ https://www.howtostudykorean.com/hanja-unit-1-lessons-1-20/