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A challenge I keep hitting with this is non-technical team asking 'why it takes this long' anytime the provided date is >X (for some X is a day, for others it's

A challenge I keep hitting with this is non-technical team asking 'why it takes this long' anytime the provided date is >X (for some X is a day, for others it's a week). They want to understand the internals of the ask so they can then nitpick that "well that's not needed". Fundamentally it's a lack of trust IMO, but any tips on addressing this would be welcome :-)

tomnipotent 7y ago
> Fundamentally it's a lack of trust IMO Which is usually a failure of communication. The whole "just trust us" bit doesn't work, and it takes real work to build a rapport with your stakeholders to earn "blind" trust, which is what most people are really asking for when they say "just trust us". This almost never happens, unless people have been working with each other for many years. > then nitpick that "well that's not needed" First, ask questions. Find out why they're willing to put energy into this - most people are not wasteful when they push back on things (most). Maybe their boss is riding their ass, and it's CYA. Maybe they're just stating a preference, so I'll ask questions to make this explicit ("So you just prefer it this way? No data? No customer feedback? Your boss didn't ask?"). Second, socialize things early and often. Tell people weeks, months, quarters in advance about some technical debt you're eventually going to get around to paying off. This gives people time to vent, challenge things, or say they're stupid. Use this time to refine your story, and get better at telling it in a way that gets the least resistance (don't need support, just fewer detractors). Sometimes that "socializing" is complaining about a shared frustration. "Ugh, System X gobbled up Sharon's purchase order again and she has to spend another two hours after working salvaging things. Really wish they'd let us spend time fixing this, but you know how it goes." By the time I've scheduled a meeting with stakeholders to discuss something (especially something I know will be difficult for them to see value in), I make sure I've individually discussed it with everyone in the room. When they see less disagreement between each other, there's less negative energy to build off. There may not be any positive energy, but that's much easier to deal with.
- hamiltont 7y ago
  > Which is usually a failure of communication This is interesting and will take some introspection, but perhaps I can improve these situations by fostering better communication. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
- loopz 7y ago
  This only works for management, who are not actually doing any of the tangible work, but doing diversion work instead. For the kindergarden style teams, there are multiple non-productive diversion people already telling different stories to various other functions of the company. Then you have the next legs beyond that telling wilder stories. The dysfunction only grow worse as the system tries to scale the dysfunction. Today most of business side has simply become too incompetent to be able to complete a dialogue with devs. Same goes for dev side, but is nothing new.
  - tomnipotent 7y ago
    There are too many broad generalizations to find any specific arguments. > Today most of business side has simply become too incompetent to be able to complete a dialogue with devs This is an example, and IMO discredits most of anything else you may be trying to say.
    - loopz 7y ago
      Sadly, it is experiential, both personal and observed in environment. Business people of today are great at monologues. Of course, management experience is different, and would hide the fact of hitting the wall as success.

tomnipotent 7y ago

> Fundamentally it's a lack of trust IMO Which is usually a failure of communication. The whole "just trust us" bit doesn't work, and it takes real work to build a rapport with your stakeholders to earn "blind" trust, which is what most people are really asking for when they say "just trust us". This almost never happens, unless people have been working with each other for many years. > then nitpick that "well that's not needed" First, ask questions. Find out why they're willing to put energy into this - most people are not wasteful when they push back on things (most). Maybe their boss is riding their ass, and it's CYA. Maybe they're just stating a preference, so I'll ask questions to make this explicit ("So you just prefer it this way? No data? No customer feedback? Your boss didn't ask?"). Second, socialize things early and often. Tell people weeks, months, quarters in advance about some technical debt you're eventually going to get around to paying off. This gives people time to vent, challenge things, or say they're stupid. Use this time to refine your story, and get better at telling it in a way that gets the least resistance (don't need support, just fewer detractors). Sometimes that "socializing" is complaining about a shared frustration. "Ugh, System X gobbled up Sharon's purchase order again and she has to spend another two hours after working salvaging things. Really wish they'd let us spend time fixing this, but you know how it goes." By the time I've scheduled a meeting with stakeholders to discuss something (especially something I know will be difficult for them to see value in), I make sure I've individually discussed it with everyone in the room. When they see less disagreement between each other, there's less negative energy to build off. There may not be any positive energy, but that's much easier to deal with.

hamiltont 7y ago
> Which is usually a failure of communication This is interesting and will take some introspection, but perhaps I can improve these situations by fostering better communication. Thanks for taking the time to respond.
loopz 7y ago
This only works for management, who are not actually doing any of the tangible work, but doing diversion work instead. For the kindergarden style teams, there are multiple non-productive diversion people already telling different stories to various other functions of the company. Then you have the next legs beyond that telling wilder stories. The dysfunction only grow worse as the system tries to scale the dysfunction. Today most of business side has simply become too incompetent to be able to complete a dialogue with devs. Same goes for dev side, but is nothing new.
- tomnipotent 7y ago
  There are too many broad generalizations to find any specific arguments. > Today most of business side has simply become too incompetent to be able to complete a dialogue with devs This is an example, and IMO discredits most of anything else you may be trying to say.
  - loopz 7y ago
    Sadly, it is experiential, both personal and observed in environment. Business people of today are great at monologues. Of course, management experience is different, and would hide the fact of hitting the wall as success.