6 ms·

I think we should also start with 6 hours work days or 4 days 8 hours. It will free up time to try new ideas and spend more time with family and loved ones. 6-7

by acd 7y ago

I think we should also start with 6 hours work days or 4 days 8 hours. It will free up time to try new ideas and spend more time with family and loved ones. 6-7 weeks of vacation would also be something to try. Ie optimizing for life quality.

Dominisi 7y ago
My current job is doing 4 days 8 hours because the boss read an article saying it increases productivity. So, his opinion is that we should be more productive in 4 days than we are in 5. I do enjoy the 3 day weekends, but I have to admit that I don't like the immense pressure of the shortened week.
- jedberg 7y ago
  Can you just work less hard in the four days and then work on the fifth off day? It seems like that schedule should give you more options about how to work, but not require you to work the compressed schedule.
- symplee 7y ago
  What metrics are being used to quantify/measure this?
unlinked_dll 7y ago
I think two mandatory vacation days every four weeks would work pretty well.
- swiley 7y ago
  One of the most productive teams I’ve worked on had unlimited vacation that was actually used. People were taking a week or so off every month and we’re still getting a crazy amount of stuff done. That or they were very good at faking it.
  - codr7 7y ago
    Why wouldn't it work? People will find ways to get the time and rest they need, hiding and faking is less effective. On top of that you get loyalty in return for being treated as human beings rather than slaves.
    - unlinked_dll 7y ago
      Part of the problem with unlimited vacation is that companies that use it tend to do it to save money, since if you have unlimited vacation days they don't need to compensate you for unused PTO when you leave. They'll also try and create a culture where employees don't want to or "can't" take time off. It can be more nefarious than anything. Of course companies that do that are usually startups, and if your startup tries to fuck you, leave. They probably need you more than you need them.
      - ghaff 7y ago
        The financial aspect is certainly true though, as someone who hasn't moved around a lot and who pretty much uses all their vacation, that aspect of traditional vacation banking has never been a big deal to me. The culture aspect needs to come down from the top. A senior engineering manager at a well-known SV company with "unlimited" vacation claims it works pretty well because, from his perspective, an expectation that you'll take time off and disconnect comes from the top. On the other hand, I've heard others at the same company give a less rosy report, so YMMV depending on teams, etc.
  - systemtest 7y ago
    Why not work a week and take a month off?
- BurningFrog 7y ago
  We already have two mandated vacation days every week.
  - xg15 7y ago
    Are you telling that your employees? And we're getting more than half of each 24-hour day off too! I guess what more could we want?
xg15 7y ago
I remember reading a discussion about this in a german online newspaper a while ago. (In light of an initiative of the Finnish cabinet exploring 6 hour workdays, I believe). When reading the comments, I expected people to dismiss the idea as unrealistic or naive but to agree with the spirit and to share the general goal of reducing worktime. I was not expecting panic and outrage. It was a minority (and certainly skewed by the groups of people who post online in the first place), but a notable number of commenters were violently opposed the idea, not out of economical concerns, but because they believed the end goal of having more free time itself was highly problematic - that it would encourage an unhealthy lifestyle, erode morals, would pose a danger to social order, etc etc. It was a sobering read and a reminder that status-quo bias is still very much a thing.
- TaylorAlexander 7y ago
  My god it’s so true. I’m a robotics engineer and I’m an advocate of what I call “reduce the human cost of living to zero” through automation and democratic arrangements. The idea being that we can make it cost very little for society to support non-working people, such that work is not compulsory for survival. It’s similar to a basic income but it’s universal basic services where we try to get the marginal cost to zero (we can IMO make it cheaper than a basic income). I get so many people telling me “but people would be miserable, they need work to be happy and have purpose.” UGH YES I agree, but I never said I would ban employment! I just want people to be able to take a year off now and then, or work half time, or volunteer or do non-capitalist work and be fine. People seem to think that if we weren’t desperate for employment we’d just sit around bored all the time. That’s not what wealthy people do! Human beings are far too creative to just sit around and do nothing. Eliminating compulsory work is about increasing freedom. We’re smart enough to find something good to do with that freedom.
  - hutzlibu 7y ago
    Well, but sadly it is true for people who have been in chains for years, that they don't know what to do anymore(except drinking and watching TV), when suddenly there is no one around anymore to tell them what to do. Lots of people quickly degrade after retirement. You can also see that effect already in schools. Currently there is school vacation and you see lots of groups of bored teenagers hanging around. There is something very wrong with a "free society", when most of its people don't know what to do with their free time except to kill it. (The very concept of timekilling is disturbing as well) But yes. I am 100% behind the idea of robotic basic income! People can learn again, that there is more to live than mindless huzzling and consuming.
TaylorAlexander 7y ago
Ive been working four 4-6 hour days a week for the past year. I’m in my opinion quite productive. I think we need to stop thinking in terms of 8 hour days. An 8 hour work day is a lot! Same with five day work weeks. With four day work weeks you get perpetual three day weekend and that makes a huge difference. Actually recently I started working Monday and taking Tuesday off so I can attend a Tuesday night hack night at the local hacker space that I would not be able to attend on a work day.
rb808 7y ago
6 hours days would be great then I can work two jobs.
gherkinnn 7y ago
I work 8h, 4 days per week. You learn to make meetings more effective, group menial tasks in to blocks and make time for interesting things, and become better at prioritising. And damn do I feel productive when working on hard technical problems. Some things just require a fresh mind.
cvik 7y ago
>I think we should also start with 6 hours work days or 4 days 8 hours. I hope you are not alluding that Sweden has 6 hour work days? That is not true. It has 8 hours, like most other countries.
- petre 7y ago
  Only France has a 35 hour work week. 35 or 40, not much of a difference but nevertheless important since you can have a decent lunch break and still spend meaningful time with your kids if we account for commuting etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/35-hour_workweek https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/35-hour_workweek
  - refurb 7y ago
    It’s not hard to work more than 35 hours in France, correct? I work with teams across Europe and they seems to put in hours that aren’t that different from the US. I assume that voluntary?
    - petre 7y ago
      One gets get paid overtime for anything more than the 35h work week and can work up a limit of h/yr overtime. They also reduced overtime payments. If the company needs 70h per week from an employee, they'd probably be better off employing two people anyway, at least in theory.

by acd 7y ago

Dominisi 7y ago

My current job is doing 4 days 8 hours because the boss read an article saying it increases productivity. So, his opinion is that we should be more productive in 4 days than we are in 5. I do enjoy the 3 day weekends, but I have to admit that I don't like the immense pressure of the shortened week.

jedberg 7y ago
Can you just work less hard in the four days and then work on the fifth off day? It seems like that schedule should give you more options about how to work, but not require you to work the compressed schedule.
symplee 7y ago
What metrics are being used to quantify/measure this?

unlinked_dll 7y ago

I think two mandatory vacation days every four weeks would work pretty well.

swiley 7y ago
One of the most productive teams I’ve worked on had unlimited vacation that was actually used. People were taking a week or so off every month and we’re still getting a crazy amount of stuff done. That or they were very good at faking it.
- codr7 7y ago
  Why wouldn't it work? People will find ways to get the time and rest they need, hiding and faking is less effective. On top of that you get loyalty in return for being treated as human beings rather than slaves.
  - unlinked_dll 7y ago
    Part of the problem with unlimited vacation is that companies that use it tend to do it to save money, since if you have unlimited vacation days they don't need to compensate you for unused PTO when you leave. They'll also try and create a culture where employees don't want to or "can't" take time off. It can be more nefarious than anything. Of course companies that do that are usually startups, and if your startup tries to fuck you, leave. They probably need you more than you need them.
    - ghaff 7y ago
      The financial aspect is certainly true though, as someone who hasn't moved around a lot and who pretty much uses all their vacation, that aspect of traditional vacation banking has never been a big deal to me. The culture aspect needs to come down from the top. A senior engineering manager at a well-known SV company with "unlimited" vacation claims it works pretty well because, from his perspective, an expectation that you'll take time off and disconnect comes from the top. On the other hand, I've heard others at the same company give a less rosy report, so YMMV depending on teams, etc.
- systemtest 7y ago
  Why not work a week and take a month off?
BurningFrog 7y ago
We already have two mandated vacation days every week.
- xg15 7y ago
  Are you telling that your employees? And we're getting more than half of each 24-hour day off too! I guess what more could we want?

xg15 7y ago

I remember reading a discussion about this in a german online newspaper a while ago. (In light of an initiative of the Finnish cabinet exploring 6 hour workdays, I believe). When reading the comments, I expected people to dismiss the idea as unrealistic or naive but to agree with the spirit and to share the general goal of reducing worktime. I was not expecting panic and outrage. It was a minority (and certainly skewed by the groups of people who post online in the first place), but a notable number of commenters were violently opposed the idea, not out of economical concerns, but because they believed the end goal of having more free time itself was highly problematic - that it would encourage an unhealthy lifestyle, erode morals, would pose a danger to social order, etc etc. It was a sobering read and a reminder that status-quo bias is still very much a thing.

TaylorAlexander 7y ago
My god it’s so true. I’m a robotics engineer and I’m an advocate of what I call “reduce the human cost of living to zero” through automation and democratic arrangements. The idea being that we can make it cost very little for society to support non-working people, such that work is not compulsory for survival. It’s similar to a basic income but it’s universal basic services where we try to get the marginal cost to zero (we can IMO make it cheaper than a basic income). I get so many people telling me “but people would be miserable, they need work to be happy and have purpose.” UGH YES I agree, but I never said I would ban employment! I just want people to be able to take a year off now and then, or work half time, or volunteer or do non-capitalist work and be fine. People seem to think that if we weren’t desperate for employment we’d just sit around bored all the time. That’s not what wealthy people do! Human beings are far too creative to just sit around and do nothing. Eliminating compulsory work is about increasing freedom. We’re smart enough to find something good to do with that freedom.
- hutzlibu 7y ago
  Well, but sadly it is true for people who have been in chains for years, that they don't know what to do anymore(except drinking and watching TV), when suddenly there is no one around anymore to tell them what to do. Lots of people quickly degrade after retirement. You can also see that effect already in schools. Currently there is school vacation and you see lots of groups of bored teenagers hanging around. There is something very wrong with a "free society", when most of its people don't know what to do with their free time except to kill it. (The very concept of timekilling is disturbing as well) But yes. I am 100% behind the idea of robotic basic income! People can learn again, that there is more to live than mindless huzzling and consuming.

TaylorAlexander 7y ago

Ive been working four 4-6 hour days a week for the past year. I’m in my opinion quite productive. I think we need to stop thinking in terms of 8 hour days. An 8 hour work day is a lot! Same with five day work weeks. With four day work weeks you get perpetual three day weekend and that makes a huge difference. Actually recently I started working Monday and taking Tuesday off so I can attend a Tuesday night hack night at the local hacker space that I would not be able to attend on a work day.

rb808 7y ago

6 hours days would be great then I can work two jobs.

gherkinnn 7y ago

I work 8h, 4 days per week. You learn to make meetings more effective, group menial tasks in to blocks and make time for interesting things, and become better at prioritising. And damn do I feel productive when working on hard technical problems. Some things just require a fresh mind.

cvik 7y ago

>I think we should also start with 6 hours work days or 4 days 8 hours. I hope you are not alluding that Sweden has 6 hour work days? That is not true. It has 8 hours, like most other countries.

petre 7y ago
Only France has a 35 hour work week. 35 or 40, not much of a difference but nevertheless important since you can have a decent lunch break and still spend meaningful time with your kids if we account for commuting etc. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/35-hour_workweek https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/35-hour_workweek
- refurb 7y ago
  It’s not hard to work more than 35 hours in France, correct? I work with teams across Europe and they seems to put in hours that aren’t that different from the US. I assume that voluntary?
  - petre 7y ago
    One gets get paid overtime for anything more than the 35h work week and can work up a limit of h/yr overtime. They also reduced overtime payments. If the company needs 70h per week from an employee, they'd probably be better off employing two people anyway, at least in theory.