3 ms·

i've got nothing to say about harari, i don't like him myself either, but it's a bit of a stretch to say that society is not changing that fast at all. I wonder

i've got nothing to say about harari, i don't like him myself either, but it's a bit of a stretch to say that society is not changing that fast at all. I wonder what you consider by society and change. Internet changed nothing? Everyone having smartphones etc?

Barrin92 7y ago
Everyone having smartphones it's nice but it hasn't significantly increased economic output, the impact of computerization on productivity is in fact very small. The UK for example in the last 10 years (since the invention of the smartphone), has not seen increases in labour productivity at all. Paul Krugman referred to the "kitchen test" at one point. If you go to your kitchen today and compare it to 40 years ago, what has changed? Arguably very little, maybe the only thing that would tell you what year you're in is a screen on your wall. Robert Gordon also proposed imagining going to sleep in 1870 and waking up in 1970 in the same spot in New York. Someone waking up would find the car, skyscrapers everywhere, the discovery of dna, haber bosch allowing 3 billion additional people to grow food, going to the moon, the commercial airplane, the computer, antibiotics,and so on. Go to sleep in 1970 and wake up in 2020 New York and, well it doesn't look so different.
- senordevnyc 7y ago
  Paul Krugman referred to the "kitchen test" at one point. If you go to your kitchen today and compare it to 40 years ago, what has changed? Arguably very little, maybe the only thing that would tell you what year you're in is a screen on your wall. This seems like a test tailor-made to prove the point you’re trying to make. Why not ask the same question about how much your local VHS rental store has changed? And as to 1870 -> 1970 vs. 1970 -> 2020, isn’t it obvious? One is a span of time twice as long! The fair comparison is 1920 -> 2020, or 1970 -> 2070. In which case I think the point evaporates pretty quickly.
  - Barrin92 7y ago
    >This seems like a test tailor-made to prove the point you’re trying to make. Why not ask the same question about how much your local VHS rental store has changed? Because a kitchen is significantly more representative on how much our daily lives overall have changed because the kitchen (or really you could pick any other place that represents labour or a place of gathering), says more than the VHS store. The fact that you're bringing up the VHS store goes to show though what the crux of the problem is. Innovation over the last few decades has primarily only happened in the world of media and communication. Watching netflix instead of renting VHS tapes is nice, but it hasn't significantly expanded our productive capacities. In fact infrastructure, healthcare (remember watson?) and so on have largely stayed the same, or even gotten less productive. Infrastructure, healthcare and housing represent a significant portion of both daily experienced lives and chunk of the economy. More social networks and more tv shows and online games are pretty cool, but they don't really touch labour organisation, structure of the firm or production, and it shows in stagnating economic growth and cost disease throughout the economy.
    - senordevnyc 7y ago
      What? Productivity has expanded tremendously in the last 40 years! https://data.oecd.org/chart/5QdS https://data.oecd.org/chart/5QdS I can’t think of a space that hasn’t been heavily impacted since 1980. Even the kitchen. In addition to the obvious examples of kitchen appliances and screens and devices like Echo that weren’t available in 1980, how about the fact that there are many fewer meals eaten at home? Or cooked for families? How about the ways that women’s roles in society and families have changed? How about the rise of single person households? Or meal prep and delivery services? Or the much wider availability of fresh or “exotic” foods year round than 40 years ago? Sure, you can walk into a kitchen from 1980 or 2020 and see many similarities, but there are also many differences that you can’t see at first glance.
- Gravityloss 7y ago
  A lot of the food is completely different!
- asimovfan 7y ago
  what is economical output relevant? why is that an indicator of change :) just compare what you spend your daily life doing and thinking, to what your parents did and think, then go to another generation, then another

Barrin92 7y ago

Everyone having smartphones it's nice but it hasn't significantly increased economic output, the impact of computerization on productivity is in fact very small. The UK for example in the last 10 years (since the invention of the smartphone), has not seen increases in labour productivity at all. Paul Krugman referred to the "kitchen test" at one point. If you go to your kitchen today and compare it to 40 years ago, what has changed? Arguably very little, maybe the only thing that would tell you what year you're in is a screen on your wall. Robert Gordon also proposed imagining going to sleep in 1870 and waking up in 1970 in the same spot in New York. Someone waking up would find the car, skyscrapers everywhere, the discovery of dna, haber bosch allowing 3 billion additional people to grow food, going to the moon, the commercial airplane, the computer, antibiotics,and so on. Go to sleep in 1970 and wake up in 2020 New York and, well it doesn't look so different.

senordevnyc 7y ago
Paul Krugman referred to the "kitchen test" at one point. If you go to your kitchen today and compare it to 40 years ago, what has changed? Arguably very little, maybe the only thing that would tell you what year you're in is a screen on your wall. This seems like a test tailor-made to prove the point you’re trying to make. Why not ask the same question about how much your local VHS rental store has changed? And as to 1870 -> 1970 vs. 1970 -> 2020, isn’t it obvious? One is a span of time twice as long! The fair comparison is 1920 -> 2020, or 1970 -> 2070. In which case I think the point evaporates pretty quickly.
- Barrin92 7y ago
  >This seems like a test tailor-made to prove the point you’re trying to make. Why not ask the same question about how much your local VHS rental store has changed? Because a kitchen is significantly more representative on how much our daily lives overall have changed because the kitchen (or really you could pick any other place that represents labour or a place of gathering), says more than the VHS store. The fact that you're bringing up the VHS store goes to show though what the crux of the problem is. Innovation over the last few decades has primarily only happened in the world of media and communication. Watching netflix instead of renting VHS tapes is nice, but it hasn't significantly expanded our productive capacities. In fact infrastructure, healthcare (remember watson?) and so on have largely stayed the same, or even gotten less productive. Infrastructure, healthcare and housing represent a significant portion of both daily experienced lives and chunk of the economy. More social networks and more tv shows and online games are pretty cool, but they don't really touch labour organisation, structure of the firm or production, and it shows in stagnating economic growth and cost disease throughout the economy.
  - senordevnyc 7y ago
    What? Productivity has expanded tremendously in the last 40 years! https://data.oecd.org/chart/5QdS https://data.oecd.org/chart/5QdS I can’t think of a space that hasn’t been heavily impacted since 1980. Even the kitchen. In addition to the obvious examples of kitchen appliances and screens and devices like Echo that weren’t available in 1980, how about the fact that there are many fewer meals eaten at home? Or cooked for families? How about the ways that women’s roles in society and families have changed? How about the rise of single person households? Or meal prep and delivery services? Or the much wider availability of fresh or “exotic” foods year round than 40 years ago? Sure, you can walk into a kitchen from 1980 or 2020 and see many similarities, but there are also many differences that you can’t see at first glance.
Gravityloss 7y ago
A lot of the food is completely different!
asimovfan 7y ago
what is economical output relevant? why is that an indicator of change :) just compare what you spend your daily life doing and thinking, to what your parents did and think, then go to another generation, then another