3 ms·

200 or 300 km/h I wouldn't call that slow. Not as fast as a plane but it's not slow at all.

by Darmody 7y ago

Hamuko 7y ago
It is slow when it's directly competing with planes.
- Darmody 7y ago
  Planes being faster doesn't mean trains are slow.
- notahacker 7y ago
  Not so much when the train leaves direct from the city centre and you can arrive 10 mins before your departure.
  - Hamuko 7y ago
    1h 30min + whatever time I spend at the airport vs. 12 hours + 10 minutes at the train station. That's a pretty hard sell.
    - notahacker 7y ago
      Most train journeys covering 1hr 30 min flights aren't 12 hours.
      - Hamuko 7y ago
        Well, the domestic flight that I have taken the most in the recent years is. The train is at its fastest 8 hours and some.
presto8 7y ago
The most well-executed high-speed train system I can think of is in Japan, e.g. shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo, which Google Maps is reporting as 2h11m. Distance by road for that city pair is showing as 464 km, for an average speed of 212 km/h. So I think around 200 km/h can be considered the highest possible currently practical average speed of a high speed train network over a reasonable distance. I tried to find something equivalent in Europe to compare, maybe Frankfurt to Berlin? Google Maps is showing that as 4h16 by ICE over 549 km, for an average speed of 128 km/h. Maybe the inefficiencies can be eliminated and the European trains can get closer to 200 km/h average speed?
- inferiorhuman 7y ago
  I tried to find something equivalent in Europe to compare, maybe Frankfurt to Berlin? Google Maps is showing that as 4h16 by ICE over 549 km, for an average speed of 128 km/h. Ah, I took the ICE from Frankfurt to Berlin last year on a last minute ticket. A bunch of things come to mind. In no particular order: - Tokyo - Kyoto is pretty much the premier Shinkansen line. Is Frankfurt - Berlin considered the same? - I was pretty underwhelmed with the overall comfort on the ICE trip (slightly less than Amtrak's Acela). The Shinkansen (well, at least Tokyo - Kansai Region) is really on a whole other level. - A last minute ICE ticket Frankfurt - Berlin was fairly expensive (> $100 if memory serves), I didn't price advance tickets. Berlin - Amsterdam tho got dramatically cheaper the further out you booked your ticket. - Spain's Barcelona - Madrid train has regularly raised its peak speed (now at 310 kph) and if my calculations from the Wikipedia page are correct RENFE completes the 621 km trip in 2.5 hours (about 250 kph average). - Amsterdam Centraal is perhaps one of the most obnoxious stations I've had to navigate. Every Dutch resident I've talked with has complained about the punctuality followed by complaining about how unnecessarily unintuitive the fares are. Germany still has a fair amount of diesel service and a ton of legacy infrastructure. Spain is basically converting all of their non-standard gauge rail to a more common gauge and rolling out a ton of high speed service. I've only done relatively short trips (Madrid - Toledo) versus a variety of longer distance trips in Germany.
  - detaro 7y ago
    A premier ICE route that had a lot of impact is probably the new Berlin-Munich route. 623 km, the "sprinter" trains with the least stops do it in 3:55 - 160km/h average. Stop counts are always a difficult balance for longer routes: They slow the trains down, increasing end-to-end travel time, but provide connections to more people and regions.

200 or 300 km/h I wouldn't call that slow. Not as fast as a plane but it's not slow at all.

Hamuko 7y ago

It is slow when it's directly competing with planes.

Darmody 7y ago
Planes being faster doesn't mean trains are slow.
notahacker 7y ago
Not so much when the train leaves direct from the city centre and you can arrive 10 mins before your departure.
- Hamuko 7y ago
  1h 30min + whatever time I spend at the airport vs. 12 hours + 10 minutes at the train station. That's a pretty hard sell.
  - notahacker 7y ago
    Most train journeys covering 1hr 30 min flights aren't 12 hours.
    - Hamuko 7y ago
      Well, the domestic flight that I have taken the most in the recent years is. The train is at its fastest 8 hours and some.

presto8 7y ago

The most well-executed high-speed train system I can think of is in Japan, e.g. shinkansen from Kyoto to Tokyo, which Google Maps is reporting as 2h11m. Distance by road for that city pair is showing as 464 km, for an average speed of 212 km/h. So I think around 200 km/h can be considered the highest possible currently practical average speed of a high speed train network over a reasonable distance. I tried to find something equivalent in Europe to compare, maybe Frankfurt to Berlin? Google Maps is showing that as 4h16 by ICE over 549 km, for an average speed of 128 km/h. Maybe the inefficiencies can be eliminated and the European trains can get closer to 200 km/h average speed?

inferiorhuman 7y ago
I tried to find something equivalent in Europe to compare, maybe Frankfurt to Berlin? Google Maps is showing that as 4h16 by ICE over 549 km, for an average speed of 128 km/h. Ah, I took the ICE from Frankfurt to Berlin last year on a last minute ticket. A bunch of things come to mind. In no particular order: - Tokyo - Kyoto is pretty much the premier Shinkansen line. Is Frankfurt - Berlin considered the same? - I was pretty underwhelmed with the overall comfort on the ICE trip (slightly less than Amtrak's Acela). The Shinkansen (well, at least Tokyo - Kansai Region) is really on a whole other level. - A last minute ICE ticket Frankfurt - Berlin was fairly expensive (> $100 if memory serves), I didn't price advance tickets. Berlin - Amsterdam tho got dramatically cheaper the further out you booked your ticket. - Spain's Barcelona - Madrid train has regularly raised its peak speed (now at 310 kph) and if my calculations from the Wikipedia page are correct RENFE completes the 621 km trip in 2.5 hours (about 250 kph average). - Amsterdam Centraal is perhaps one of the most obnoxious stations I've had to navigate. Every Dutch resident I've talked with has complained about the punctuality followed by complaining about how unnecessarily unintuitive the fares are. Germany still has a fair amount of diesel service and a ton of legacy infrastructure. Spain is basically converting all of their non-standard gauge rail to a more common gauge and rolling out a ton of high speed service. I've only done relatively short trips (Madrid - Toledo) versus a variety of longer distance trips in Germany.
- detaro 7y ago
  A premier ICE route that had a lot of impact is probably the new Berlin-Munich route. 623 km, the "sprinter" trains with the least stops do it in 3:55 - 160km/h average. Stop counts are always a difficult balance for longer routes: They slow the trains down, increasing end-to-end travel time, but provide connections to more people and regions.