5 ms·

Glad that they’re working on it, right now flying is just cheaper on many cases. Need to go from Zurich to Paris? The TGV Train will cost you almost twice as m

Glad that they’re working on it, right now flying is just cheaper on many cases. Need to go from Zurich to Paris? The TGV Train will cost you almost twice as much as a short direct flight. Berlin to Munich? Also cheaper by plane. Being a student with a limited budget, this very much affects my decision.

sudoaza 7y ago
Yes, this is crazy!! We need action on this immediately. I suspect aviation subsides are to blame.
- dzhiurgis 7y ago
  Aviation is highly taxed (about half of your ticket). Subsidies (or more accurately tax discounts) are only on fuel which is something like 10% of your flight costs. Rest goes on staff and capex. There already is form of transport that's much cheaper than train or flying which is called BUS. We can make them fully electric and even have different classes. They can share existing infrastructure that doesn't require thousands of specialised people to maintain or operate...
  - sudoaza 7y ago
    Eeww maybe once flixbus is fully electric...
  - ac29 7y ago
    >They can share existing infrastructure that doesn't require thousands of specialised people to maintain or operate... Spending on highways and roads was $175 billion in the US in 2016 [0]. They absolutely do require massive numbers of people to maintain them - for example, Caltrans, the California agency that manages the state highway system, has over 18,000 permanent staff. [0] https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/cross-center-initiatives/state-and-local-finance-initiative/state-and-local-backgrounders/highway-and-road-expenditures https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/cross-center-initiative...
dbmueller 7y ago
I often find using interrail.eu to be a good option. Much more elastic, and can quickly get financially interesting, even more so for multi-hop travels.
pjmlp 7y ago
Thing is, not only it is cheaper, it is much more effective regarding use of time. Zurich to Paris just takes too long by train, and doing night trains isn't always an option.
- dbmueller 7y ago
  4 hours isn't that long, is it? plane cannot beat that by much
  - input_sh 7y ago
    Especially when you account boarding, navigating the airport, having to show up at least half an hour before the flight, security checkups... All time-consuming tasks related to boarding the actual aircraft that you don't have to go through to hop on a train.
    - pjmlp 7y ago
      No, you have to run like crazy hoping not to lose the connection train, being stopped in the middle of nowhere without any information, stuffed into wagons without air conditioning and possibility to open the windows, cramped with more passengers than available seats, without any place to stuff luggage, out of order toilets,....
      - bravura 7y ago
        Okay so fly to CDG in Paris and then enjoy the annoying train ride into Paris that takes an hour and leaves infrequently. How do you get to and from the airport anyway? Many cities it’s a nightmare to get to the airport, whereas the train station is usually central.
      - Sharlin 7y ago
        None of those is somehow intrinsic to train travel, as I’m sure you’re aware. Quality of service is just a function of priorities.
      - 7y ago
papaf 7y ago
Also cheaper by plane. Being a student with a limited budget, this very much affects my decision. My tips would be: * Book at least a week in advance. * Buy a Bahn Card 25. * Get up early. If you do this Berlin -> Munich is €44.90 next Saturday on the 4 hour fast train. Also don't forget, it costs around €11 to go from Munich airport to the city.
- ArmandGrillet 7y ago
  This is the pro-tip, a Bahn Card 25 reimburses itself in 2-3 trips and trains booked 6 weeks in advance (which is what I do for airplanes) or even 3-4 weeks in advances are inexpensive (like 30€ for a Hamburg Dammtor -Frankfurt HbF which is way more comfortable than going to both airports). One thing I despise about trains in Germany and France is that the experience still feels way too old school. What happens when something is delayed or when a connection has an issue makes you feel back in the eighties. The Deutsche Bahn applications are a great way to see that, it's confused and overly complicated. I wish the UX of apps/websites like https://www.trainline.eu/ https://www.trainline.eu/ would be the standard by now.
  - pr0duktiv 7y ago
    BahnCard is great, but what we really need is an inner-European loyalty card for trains. BahnCard only works in Germany and I don’t want to buy another loyalty card whenever I go to another European country.
- pr0duktiv 7y ago
  Might have been a bad example, I was about to book the TGV from Zurich to Paris 5 weeks in advance for a weekend trip and I have the Swiss half-fare subscription (like BahnCard 50). Still would’ve been ~170€ instead of 90 CHF for a direct flight (both ways)
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > Buy a Bahn Card 25 Why does buying an affordable train ticket always involve a treasure hunt of weird ticketing combinations and cards like this?
Hamuko 7y ago
A flight between Helsinki and Rovaniemi is like 1h 20min. The train will take 8 to 12 hours. Even accounting for all of the airport bullshit, you'll save so much time by taking the plane without a big increase in cost (at least if you book in advance).

sudoaza 7y ago

Yes, this is crazy!! We need action on this immediately. I suspect aviation subsides are to blame.

dzhiurgis 7y ago
Aviation is highly taxed (about half of your ticket). Subsidies (or more accurately tax discounts) are only on fuel which is something like 10% of your flight costs. Rest goes on staff and capex. There already is form of transport that's much cheaper than train or flying which is called BUS. We can make them fully electric and even have different classes. They can share existing infrastructure that doesn't require thousands of specialised people to maintain or operate...
- sudoaza 7y ago
  Eeww maybe once flixbus is fully electric...
- ac29 7y ago
  >They can share existing infrastructure that doesn't require thousands of specialised people to maintain or operate... Spending on highways and roads was $175 billion in the US in 2016 [0]. They absolutely do require massive numbers of people to maintain them - for example, Caltrans, the California agency that manages the state highway system, has over 18,000 permanent staff. [0] https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/cross-center-initiatives/state-and-local-finance-initiative/state-and-local-backgrounders/highway-and-road-expenditures https://www.urban.org/policy-centers/cross-center-initiative...

dbmueller 7y ago

I often find using interrail.eu to be a good option. Much more elastic, and can quickly get financially interesting, even more so for multi-hop travels.

pjmlp 7y ago

Thing is, not only it is cheaper, it is much more effective regarding use of time. Zurich to Paris just takes too long by train, and doing night trains isn't always an option.

dbmueller 7y ago
4 hours isn't that long, is it? plane cannot beat that by much
- input_sh 7y ago
  Especially when you account boarding, navigating the airport, having to show up at least half an hour before the flight, security checkups... All time-consuming tasks related to boarding the actual aircraft that you don't have to go through to hop on a train.
  - pjmlp 7y ago
    No, you have to run like crazy hoping not to lose the connection train, being stopped in the middle of nowhere without any information, stuffed into wagons without air conditioning and possibility to open the windows, cramped with more passengers than available seats, without any place to stuff luggage, out of order toilets,....
    - bravura 7y ago
      Okay so fly to CDG in Paris and then enjoy the annoying train ride into Paris that takes an hour and leaves infrequently. How do you get to and from the airport anyway? Many cities it’s a nightmare to get to the airport, whereas the train station is usually central.
    - Sharlin 7y ago
      None of those is somehow intrinsic to train travel, as I’m sure you’re aware. Quality of service is just a function of priorities.
    - 7y ago

papaf 7y ago

Also cheaper by plane. Being a student with a limited budget, this very much affects my decision. My tips would be: * Book at least a week in advance. * Buy a Bahn Card 25. * Get up early. If you do this Berlin -> Munich is €44.90 next Saturday on the 4 hour fast train. Also don't forget, it costs around €11 to go from Munich airport to the city.

ArmandGrillet 7y ago
This is the pro-tip, a Bahn Card 25 reimburses itself in 2-3 trips and trains booked 6 weeks in advance (which is what I do for airplanes) or even 3-4 weeks in advances are inexpensive (like 30€ for a Hamburg Dammtor -Frankfurt HbF which is way more comfortable than going to both airports). One thing I despise about trains in Germany and France is that the experience still feels way too old school. What happens when something is delayed or when a connection has an issue makes you feel back in the eighties. The Deutsche Bahn applications are a great way to see that, it's confused and overly complicated. I wish the UX of apps/websites like https://www.trainline.eu/ https://www.trainline.eu/ would be the standard by now.
- pr0duktiv 7y ago
  BahnCard is great, but what we really need is an inner-European loyalty card for trains. BahnCard only works in Germany and I don’t want to buy another loyalty card whenever I go to another European country.
pr0duktiv 7y ago
Might have been a bad example, I was about to book the TGV from Zurich to Paris 5 weeks in advance for a weekend trip and I have the Swiss half-fare subscription (like BahnCard 50). Still would’ve been ~170€ instead of 90 CHF for a direct flight (both ways)
chrisseaton 7y ago
> Buy a Bahn Card 25 Why does buying an affordable train ticket always involve a treasure hunt of weird ticketing combinations and cards like this?

Hamuko 7y ago

A flight between Helsinki and Rovaniemi is like 1h 20min. The train will take 8 to 12 hours. Even accounting for all of the airport bullshit, you'll save so much time by taking the plane without a big increase in cost (at least if you book in advance).