7 ms·

I honestly don't know why anyone gives FAANG recruiters the time of day anymore. I have yet to meet anyone who feels good about the prospect of working for them

I honestly don't know why anyone gives FAANG recruiters the time of day anymore. I have yet to meet anyone who feels good about the prospect of working for them, anyone who works there who's super proud of their mission, and the competitors who are looking to hire at that level of talent pay roughly similar wages from what I've seen. My advice for this poor kid is to look around at startups and do more networking. FAANG jobs aren't anything to aspire to anymore.

fossuser 7y ago
A couple of reasons: - Comp: Total comp for a new hire with 3+ yrs dev experience is probably 300k -> 400k at a FAANG on average (with possibility to be higher). If you want to live and raise a family in your own house in the bay area (2.5 Million for a reasonable house), this matters. - Access: Few places have the kind of scale and resources of these companies, that can make them fun places to work. You also get to learn a lot from really good coworkers (and go to talks, explore different things, etc.) - Work/Life: FAANGs are generally pretty good for work/life balance (though this can vary by team and manager). They're generally pleasant places to work as an engineer.
- vqc 7y ago
  What kind of house is a reasonable house for $2.5M?
  - fossuser 7y ago
    https://www.redfin.com/CA/Palo-Alto/3805-Magnolia-Dr-94306/home/1421875 https://www.redfin.com/CA/Palo-Alto/3805-Magnolia-Dr-94306/h...
    - vqc 7y ago
      Fair enough. Palo Alto is a nice area, expensive market.
      - betaby 7y ago
        Why ceiling is sow low in US/Canada homes?
        Mountain_Skies 7y ago
        That's not universally true. US homes in warm climates had high ceilings until the advent of central climate control. Homes in cold areas tended to have low ceilings to keep the warm air where it was most useful: at the level of the occupants. Eight foot ceilings are very common in tract homes built between the introduction of air conditioning and the start of the McMansion trend in the 1990s. Common areas with higher ceilings are not rare in newer homes.
  - salixrosa 7y ago
    It's always... interesting... To look at SF on Zillow. There are a few nice-looking options in the ~1.5M range, mostly foreclosures, and it seems mostly in not-so-great areas. I don't know if there are any great areas in SF proper though.
    - city41 7y ago
      FAANG has a much larger presence in Silicon Valley than SF. SF is more biased towards startups. Although it’s true all the major tech companies have SF shuttles. San Jose’s median house price is $1.2 million. A million will get you a quality ranch. (I fully appreciate the ridiculousness of presenting a million as “affordable”)
  - gfaure 7y ago
    The vast majority of engineers at FAANGs are _not_ commuting out of San Francisco -- looking at where the workforce really is: Mountain View, Menlo Park, Sunnyvale, you most definitely don't need to shell out $2.5M for a reasonable house.
    - fossuser 7y ago
      Yes you do - Palo Alto, Mountain View, Cupertino, and nearby peninsula cities are even more expensive than SF. At least in SF you can get a nice new construction apartment for 875k. You can find a cheap house for $1.25M in San Mateo or on the outskirts of San Jose, but it’ll still be pretty small and far away.
- mullingitover 7y ago
  > If you want to live and raise a family in your own house in the bay area (2.5 Million for a reasonable house), this matters. I love the bay area, and I have terrible judgement, but even my terrible judgement and my love of the bay area combined aren't a bad enough combination to make me think it's a good place to raise a family.
  - fossuser 7y ago
    Except for housing costs, I think it’d be a great place to raise kids.
    - ip26 7y ago
      It does have many top schools, relative safety, and an achievement oriented culture. Which comes with problems, but upsides as well.
- Cu3PO42 7y ago
  I must admit I always feel weird when I see numbers like that mentioned for software engineers. In Germany a more reasonable number with a few years of experience might be in the €50-55k ballpark. Granted, the cost of living is significantly lower in most cities here than it is in the bay area, but still it just feels... weird. Edit: Fixed a typo.
  - fossuser 7y ago
    I think Europe (and the UK) undervalue software engineers. At least in the UK this seems like a cultural thing where management is high status/high value and engineers are low status/low value. I think the US generally gets this right (at least in silicon valley), but it could partly be because the US has some extremely valuable software companies that operate on a global stage that aren't really present elsewhere. Really great software engineers can generate insane value at a great company with a good business.
    - ummonk 7y ago
      From the numbers I've seen, Zurich is the one exception that pays comparably to the Bay Area, NYC, and Seattle.
      - Cu3PO42 7y ago
        Unfortunately Zurich may also compare on cost of living. Maybe that's all there is to it, but I somehow doubt that.
        ummonk 7y ago
        Yeah, but it's better than say London which compares on cost of living but pays abysmally.
    - heartbeats 7y ago
      There's only really one place that can have these big tech companies, and that is the US. What technology companies of note do the UK have? It's just stupid nonsense like "writing spreadsheets for the local government" and minor web development. In tech, it really is US vs. ROW
WilliamEdward 7y ago
I don't know what kind of selective bargaining power you guys have, but i would kill just to get my foot in the door of a FAANG.
- metalgearsolid 7y ago
  It's nice working on any well known product really. I spent 3 years with a tiny startup doing enterprise software, and I can hardly even explain it to other employers, because hell, not even my own boss knew what he was trying to sell. We just had some kind of survey builder platform with a mess of features that was starting to stick with people. Finding my 2nd job is just as hard as getting the first one, as the product I helped develop is just not that interesting. It would be so much easier to just say I worked at Google, Airbnb, Apple, whatever. I'd be upset, but I don't want to work for a FAANG regardless. Good luck!
- chillacy 7y ago
  The best path in I can see is basically practicing interviews and landing an on site interview with Uber or Lyft on interviewing.io (where you can get a real interview just by passing enough practice interviews), then reaching out to recruiters at FAANGs and saying that you have interviews with X Y and Z lined up already. That tends to get replies, since you’re signaling that you’re vetted already and recruiters are paid per hire.
aidenn0 7y ago
I looked into moving to the bay area and FAANG were the only companies paying sufficiently high wages for me to break even after the difference in my mortgage payments. I don't want to work for FAANG, so I didn't move.
- city41 7y ago
  There is a lot of truth to this. Once you commit to FAANG, you need to stay within FAANG to maintain your quality of life.
ummonk 7y ago
I assume he is interviewing with the other top companies too (e.g. "payment processing company" would be something like Stripe or Square probably).
jedberg 7y ago
> I have yet to meet anyone who feels good about the prospect of working for them, anyone who works there who's super proud of their mission I worked at the N in FAANG. It was the best large company work environment I ever worked in. The people I worked with were top notch, I looked forward to going into to work. Our mission was to deliver entertainment around the world. I believed in that mission. I think entertainment is an important part of people on this planet relaxing, which leads to them being happier and all the outcomes that come from that. I'll admit Netflix is different than most of the rest in that it isn't driven by ad revenue and increased consumerism, so maybe that made it easier to love the mission. But yeah, I definitely enjoyed working there. Even without the crazy paycheck (although that admittedly helped a lot).
- BlueTemplar 7y ago
  What about delivering MAFIAA's DRMs around the world ? (after the second attempt by Netflix to get in the streaming market.)
  - jedberg 7y ago
    Netflix never wanted to do DRM. They fought the studios and tried to teach them for years that it was pointless. Eventually they had to relent because the studios had more power than they do. To answer the follow up question -- the Netflix originals have DRM because they aren't made by Netflix, they are still made by regular Hollywood studios that demand DRM. And for the few where Netflix has control, it's easier technology-wise to just put DRM on everything instead of littering the code with exceptions for some content. At the end of the day, DRM for rented content isn't so bad. You're renting it. You shouldn't have control over it. I still don't like DRM on content I'm buying.
    - BlueTemplar 7y ago
      Sorry, even if Netflix was used as a front for Hollywood for the DRM in HTML push, this smells too much of a "just following orders" justification - they benefited greatly by bending to Hollywood's wishes ! Also, their subscription model is quite different from plain rentals, and I'm having issues with the renting model anyway... and Netflix isn't so much renting as subscription... and even people that don't follow these issues are starting to realize that a system where there's no "standard" and you have to subscribe to multiple subscription platforms is bad !

fossuser 7y ago

A couple of reasons: - Comp: Total comp for a new hire with 3+ yrs dev experience is probably 300k -> 400k at a FAANG on average (with possibility to be higher). If you want to live and raise a family in your own house in the bay area (2.5 Million for a reasonable house), this matters. - Access: Few places have the kind of scale and resources of these companies, that can make them fun places to work. You also get to learn a lot from really good coworkers (and go to talks, explore different things, etc.) - Work/Life: FAANGs are generally pretty good for work/life balance (though this can vary by team and manager). They're generally pleasant places to work as an engineer.

vqc 7y ago
What kind of house is a reasonable house for $2.5M?
- fossuser 7y ago
  https://www.redfin.com/CA/Palo-Alto/3805-Magnolia-Dr-94306/home/1421875 https://www.redfin.com/CA/Palo-Alto/3805-Magnolia-Dr-94306/h...
  - vqc 7y ago
    Fair enough. Palo Alto is a nice area, expensive market.
    - betaby 7y ago
      Why ceiling is sow low in US/Canada homes?
      - Mountain_Skies 7y ago
        That's not universally true. US homes in warm climates had high ceilings until the advent of central climate control. Homes in cold areas tended to have low ceilings to keep the warm air where it was most useful: at the level of the occupants. Eight foot ceilings are very common in tract homes built between the introduction of air conditioning and the start of the McMansion trend in the 1990s. Common areas with higher ceilings are not rare in newer homes.
- salixrosa 7y ago
  It's always... interesting... To look at SF on Zillow. There are a few nice-looking options in the ~1.5M range, mostly foreclosures, and it seems mostly in not-so-great areas. I don't know if there are any great areas in SF proper though.
  - city41 7y ago
    FAANG has a much larger presence in Silicon Valley than SF. SF is more biased towards startups. Although it’s true all the major tech companies have SF shuttles. San Jose’s median house price is $1.2 million. A million will get you a quality ranch. (I fully appreciate the ridiculousness of presenting a million as “affordable”)
- gfaure 7y ago
  The vast majority of engineers at FAANGs are _not_ commuting out of San Francisco -- looking at where the workforce really is: Mountain View, Menlo Park, Sunnyvale, you most definitely don't need to shell out $2.5M for a reasonable house.
  - fossuser 7y ago
    Yes you do - Palo Alto, Mountain View, Cupertino, and nearby peninsula cities are even more expensive than SF. At least in SF you can get a nice new construction apartment for 875k. You can find a cheap house for $1.25M in San Mateo or on the outskirts of San Jose, but it’ll still be pretty small and far away.
mullingitover 7y ago
> If you want to live and raise a family in your own house in the bay area (2.5 Million for a reasonable house), this matters. I love the bay area, and I have terrible judgement, but even my terrible judgement and my love of the bay area combined aren't a bad enough combination to make me think it's a good place to raise a family.
- fossuser 7y ago
  Except for housing costs, I think it’d be a great place to raise kids.
  - ip26 7y ago
    It does have many top schools, relative safety, and an achievement oriented culture. Which comes with problems, but upsides as well.
Cu3PO42 7y ago
I must admit I always feel weird when I see numbers like that mentioned for software engineers. In Germany a more reasonable number with a few years of experience might be in the €50-55k ballpark. Granted, the cost of living is significantly lower in most cities here than it is in the bay area, but still it just feels... weird. Edit: Fixed a typo.
- fossuser 7y ago
  I think Europe (and the UK) undervalue software engineers. At least in the UK this seems like a cultural thing where management is high status/high value and engineers are low status/low value. I think the US generally gets this right (at least in silicon valley), but it could partly be because the US has some extremely valuable software companies that operate on a global stage that aren't really present elsewhere. Really great software engineers can generate insane value at a great company with a good business.
  - ummonk 7y ago
    From the numbers I've seen, Zurich is the one exception that pays comparably to the Bay Area, NYC, and Seattle.
    - Cu3PO42 7y ago
      Unfortunately Zurich may also compare on cost of living. Maybe that's all there is to it, but I somehow doubt that.
      - ummonk 7y ago
        Yeah, but it's better than say London which compares on cost of living but pays abysmally.
  - heartbeats 7y ago
    There's only really one place that can have these big tech companies, and that is the US. What technology companies of note do the UK have? It's just stupid nonsense like "writing spreadsheets for the local government" and minor web development. In tech, it really is US vs. ROW

WilliamEdward 7y ago

I don't know what kind of selective bargaining power you guys have, but i would kill just to get my foot in the door of a FAANG.

metalgearsolid 7y ago
It's nice working on any well known product really. I spent 3 years with a tiny startup doing enterprise software, and I can hardly even explain it to other employers, because hell, not even my own boss knew what he was trying to sell. We just had some kind of survey builder platform with a mess of features that was starting to stick with people. Finding my 2nd job is just as hard as getting the first one, as the product I helped develop is just not that interesting. It would be so much easier to just say I worked at Google, Airbnb, Apple, whatever. I'd be upset, but I don't want to work for a FAANG regardless. Good luck!
chillacy 7y ago
The best path in I can see is basically practicing interviews and landing an on site interview with Uber or Lyft on interviewing.io (where you can get a real interview just by passing enough practice interviews), then reaching out to recruiters at FAANGs and saying that you have interviews with X Y and Z lined up already. That tends to get replies, since you’re signaling that you’re vetted already and recruiters are paid per hire.

aidenn0 7y ago

I looked into moving to the bay area and FAANG were the only companies paying sufficiently high wages for me to break even after the difference in my mortgage payments. I don't want to work for FAANG, so I didn't move.

city41 7y ago
There is a lot of truth to this. Once you commit to FAANG, you need to stay within FAANG to maintain your quality of life.

ummonk 7y ago

I assume he is interviewing with the other top companies too (e.g. "payment processing company" would be something like Stripe or Square probably).

jedberg 7y ago

> I have yet to meet anyone who feels good about the prospect of working for them, anyone who works there who's super proud of their mission I worked at the N in FAANG. It was the best large company work environment I ever worked in. The people I worked with were top notch, I looked forward to going into to work. Our mission was to deliver entertainment around the world. I believed in that mission. I think entertainment is an important part of people on this planet relaxing, which leads to them being happier and all the outcomes that come from that. I'll admit Netflix is different than most of the rest in that it isn't driven by ad revenue and increased consumerism, so maybe that made it easier to love the mission. But yeah, I definitely enjoyed working there. Even without the crazy paycheck (although that admittedly helped a lot).

BlueTemplar 7y ago
What about delivering MAFIAA's DRMs around the world ? (after the second attempt by Netflix to get in the streaming market.)
- jedberg 7y ago
  Netflix never wanted to do DRM. They fought the studios and tried to teach them for years that it was pointless. Eventually they had to relent because the studios had more power than they do. To answer the follow up question -- the Netflix originals have DRM because they aren't made by Netflix, they are still made by regular Hollywood studios that demand DRM. And for the few where Netflix has control, it's easier technology-wise to just put DRM on everything instead of littering the code with exceptions for some content. At the end of the day, DRM for rented content isn't so bad. You're renting it. You shouldn't have control over it. I still don't like DRM on content I'm buying.
  - BlueTemplar 7y ago
    Sorry, even if Netflix was used as a front for Hollywood for the DRM in HTML push, this smells too much of a "just following orders" justification - they benefited greatly by bending to Hollywood's wishes ! Also, their subscription model is quite different from plain rentals, and I'm having issues with the renting model anyway... and Netflix isn't so much renting as subscription... and even people that don't follow these issues are starting to realize that a system where there's no "standard" and you have to subscribe to multiple subscription platforms is bad !