5 ms·

The ferry is just as, if not more, egregious in this regard - it's the most heavily subsidized form of public transit in the city, at over $10 per ride actual c

by 1986 7y ago

The ferry is just as, if not more, egregious in this regard - it's the most heavily subsidized form of public transit in the city, at over $10 per ride actual cost, and based on my experience on the East River route, seems to largely serve tourists and people who live in Williamsburg and work on Wall Street.

vanusa 7y ago
My take -- as someone who fits neither category, and who uses the ferry quite frequently -- is that it helps to make the overall system more usable, by making certain areas more accessible. For certain trips (East Midtown to Greenpoint; Lower Manhattan to the western edge of Red Hook, for example) it quite definitely is the shortest hop. It's also much more pleasant (and healthier) ride than the subway. One of the negatives of life in NYC is the significant amount of time spent underground (or on buses, swimming in the exhaust and street noise). Ferry trips provide a significant respite from all of that. So it's a "sunk cost" but adds value overall. Though I realize this is a nuanced value proposition. And that valid questions can be raised about which communities are getting the most benefit from the service.
- m_ke 7y ago
  Yeah I use it all the time to get to midtown, dubmo and wall street from greenpoint. It's really convenient and much more pleasant than the train. It's also great for tourists. I take everyone who visits me from out of new york on it and it's always a hit.
  - 1986 7y ago
    Don't get me wrong - I live in Greenpoint too (and work in Dumbo), so I totally love it from a personal perspective - but at the same time the level of subsidy strikes me as outrageous given that it largely connects wealthy waterfront neighborhoods. I don't think they really needed to equalize the fare with subway/bus fare to encourage ridership - as you've pointed out, it's by far the most convenient and pleasant way to make those journeys, which feels like enough incentive to equalize it against something like an Express Bus instead. (A downside from a personal perspective - the Greenpoint-Dumbo trip is fine, but the reverse trip can be pretty brutal, especially in the peak of summer, when the boats often reach capacity before they even make it from Wall St.)
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - m_ke 7y ago
      Yeah I got stuck on the crazy lines back from Dumbo a few times before and will never do that again, taking a citi bike is a great alternative. The subsidies are bad but it's a net positive for the city and I'm sure a fare hike wouldn't hurt it too much. I used to take an empty bus (in heavy traffic) down Metropolitan ave from Kew Gardens to Bushwick before and it really convinced me that the city should consider getting rid of the fares, at least on busses in the outer boroughs. The amount they spent to install the new select bus service ticket machines must have been insane, and now they're spending $250 million to clamp down on fare evasion. https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/11/14/mta-will-spend-249m-on-new-cops-to-save-200m-on-fare-evasion/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/11/14/mta-will-spend-249m-o...
    - kingkawn 7y ago
      Public transit should be subsidized
Eric_WVGG 7y ago
I live fifty yards from one of the ferry stops, in fact I took it just today. I find it enormously useful, if I didn't bicycle everywhere it might even be my primary form of transit. And the BQX… goodness gracious, what a dream. It would take me to the bouldering gym up in Queens, or the one down in Gowanus, most of my local hangouts, even my hair stylist… All that said, building a light rail line for a target audience of ME is utter insanity. The BQX is dumb as hell, and will never get built.

by 1986 7y ago

vanusa 7y ago

My take -- as someone who fits neither category, and who uses the ferry quite frequently -- is that it helps to make the overall system more usable, by making certain areas more accessible. For certain trips (East Midtown to Greenpoint; Lower Manhattan to the western edge of Red Hook, for example) it quite definitely is the shortest hop. It's also much more pleasant (and healthier) ride than the subway. One of the negatives of life in NYC is the significant amount of time spent underground (or on buses, swimming in the exhaust and street noise). Ferry trips provide a significant respite from all of that. So it's a "sunk cost" but adds value overall. Though I realize this is a nuanced value proposition. And that valid questions can be raised about which communities are getting the most benefit from the service.

m_ke 7y ago
Yeah I use it all the time to get to midtown, dubmo and wall street from greenpoint. It's really convenient and much more pleasant than the train. It's also great for tourists. I take everyone who visits me from out of new york on it and it's always a hit.
- 1986 7y ago
  Don't get me wrong - I live in Greenpoint too (and work in Dumbo), so I totally love it from a personal perspective - but at the same time the level of subsidy strikes me as outrageous given that it largely connects wealthy waterfront neighborhoods. I don't think they really needed to equalize the fare with subway/bus fare to encourage ridership - as you've pointed out, it's by far the most convenient and pleasant way to make those journeys, which feels like enough incentive to equalize it against something like an Express Bus instead. (A downside from a personal perspective - the Greenpoint-Dumbo trip is fine, but the reverse trip can be pretty brutal, especially in the peak of summer, when the boats often reach capacity before they even make it from Wall St.)
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - m_ke 7y ago
    Yeah I got stuck on the crazy lines back from Dumbo a few times before and will never do that again, taking a citi bike is a great alternative. The subsidies are bad but it's a net positive for the city and I'm sure a fare hike wouldn't hurt it too much. I used to take an empty bus (in heavy traffic) down Metropolitan ave from Kew Gardens to Bushwick before and it really convinced me that the city should consider getting rid of the fares, at least on busses in the outer boroughs. The amount they spent to install the new select bus service ticket machines must have been insane, and now they're spending $250 million to clamp down on fare evasion. https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/11/14/mta-will-spend-249m-on-new-cops-to-save-200m-on-fare-evasion/ https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/11/14/mta-will-spend-249m-o...
  - kingkawn 7y ago
    Public transit should be subsidized

Eric_WVGG 7y ago

I live fifty yards from one of the ferry stops, in fact I took it just today. I find it enormously useful, if I didn't bicycle everywhere it might even be my primary form of transit. And the BQX… goodness gracious, what a dream. It would take me to the bouldering gym up in Queens, or the one down in Gowanus, most of my local hangouts, even my hair stylist… All that said, building a light rail line for a target audience of ME is utter insanity. The BQX is dumb as hell, and will never get built.