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But I have friends who work at those companies. They're brilliant, they post here on HN, and have families that they take care of. They are active in their loca

But I have friends who work at those companies. They're brilliant, they post here on HN, and have families that they take care of. They are active in their local communities. Are you saying they're the bad guys? Should I distance myself from them?

appleflaxen 7y ago
How do you look at people who spent a career at Exxon? Do they deserve to be judged in 2020 for decisions they made 30 years before the clear effects of global warming were visible? I would argue that yes, they do.
iamaelephant 7y ago
Yes, absolutely.
- Frondo 7y ago
  I would like to expand on this, because I think it's a nice quip but the answer should be more nuanced. If Facebook is generally considered harmful (i.e. to society), and if they know that it's considered harmful, and they continue to work there, putting their limited time on earth to growing, enhancing, improving a service that is harmful, then they are bad people. They can be good family people, good for their communities, but bad for society at large. Being good mothers and fathers, volunteering for neighborhood garbage cleanups, helping out in their church or mosque, that doesn't make their day job work not bad, or make them not bad for doing the harmful day job work. They can be both. I for one couldn't look my children in the eye each night and say, "I did something harmful for society today, that is what afforded you a new Switch."
  - iamaelephant 7y ago
    > the answer should be more nuanced. Not it shouldn't. We know that these companies are morally corrupt. When you sell your time to help grow these companies you are also morally corrupt. Simples.
    - starpilot 7y ago
      Does that include Yann LeCun?
      - chillacy 7y ago
        Or John Carmack as of a few months ago
    - Frondo 7y ago
      I agree they're corrupt, I was trying to explain that you can be a good family man, a nice volunteer in your local soup kitchen, whatever, and still be a Bad Person for supporting a that's bad for society.
      - Frondo 7y ago
        I'd like to know how the down voter would argue against this. I'd like to know how this position is somehow wrong.
        starpilot 7y ago
        I upvoted you. I still wonder if AI giants like Yann LeCun and John Carmack should be considered evil cogs in the machine.
mft_ 7y ago
Was everyone in history who ended up doing something bad, or working for a bad organisation, fundamentally evil in some way? Of course not: good people can wind up in bad places. And (while I’m not necessarily saying that Facebook, Instagram, or WhatsApp are fundamentally bad) the way history might judge people (such as your friends) would be in their response to finding themselves working at companies which could be considered morally dubious.
- starpilot 7y ago
  Yann Lecun?

appleflaxen 7y ago

How do you look at people who spent a career at Exxon? Do they deserve to be judged in 2020 for decisions they made 30 years before the clear effects of global warming were visible? I would argue that yes, they do.

iamaelephant 7y ago

Yes, absolutely.

Frondo 7y ago
I would like to expand on this, because I think it's a nice quip but the answer should be more nuanced. If Facebook is generally considered harmful (i.e. to society), and if they know that it's considered harmful, and they continue to work there, putting their limited time on earth to growing, enhancing, improving a service that is harmful, then they are bad people. They can be good family people, good for their communities, but bad for society at large. Being good mothers and fathers, volunteering for neighborhood garbage cleanups, helping out in their church or mosque, that doesn't make their day job work not bad, or make them not bad for doing the harmful day job work. They can be both. I for one couldn't look my children in the eye each night and say, "I did something harmful for society today, that is what afforded you a new Switch."
- iamaelephant 7y ago
  > the answer should be more nuanced. Not it shouldn't. We know that these companies are morally corrupt. When you sell your time to help grow these companies you are also morally corrupt. Simples.
  - starpilot 7y ago
    Does that include Yann LeCun?
    - chillacy 7y ago
      Or John Carmack as of a few months ago
  - Frondo 7y ago
    I agree they're corrupt, I was trying to explain that you can be a good family man, a nice volunteer in your local soup kitchen, whatever, and still be a Bad Person for supporting a that's bad for society.
    - Frondo 7y ago
      I'd like to know how the down voter would argue against this. I'd like to know how this position is somehow wrong.
      - starpilot 7y ago
        I upvoted you. I still wonder if AI giants like Yann LeCun and John Carmack should be considered evil cogs in the machine.

mft_ 7y ago

Was everyone in history who ended up doing something bad, or working for a bad organisation, fundamentally evil in some way? Of course not: good people can wind up in bad places. And (while I’m not necessarily saying that Facebook, Instagram, or WhatsApp are fundamentally bad) the way history might judge people (such as your friends) would be in their response to finding themselves working at companies which could be considered morally dubious.

starpilot 7y ago
Yann Lecun?