4 ms·

Show the stats that Bay Area is building like crazy. I am so sick of people saying things like New York and Bay Area and California are building like crazy. No

Show the stats that Bay Area is building like crazy. I am so sick of people saying things like New York and Bay Area and California are building like crazy. No they are not. There is not one stat that shows that. Period.

bryanlarsen 7y ago
"In fact, Toronto currently has more cranes in the sky than New York City, Los Angeles, Seattle and Boston combined." https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2019/07/toronto-construction-cranes/ https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2019/07/toronto-c... Toronto prices are crazy, so Toronto isn't building enough, let alone the major coastal American cities.
wpasc 7y ago
I don't think new york should be lumped in with california in that measure. This site shows active construction in new york: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/html/nyc-active-major-construction.html https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/html/nyc-active-major-...
- shuckles 7y ago
  New York built fewer new homes per capita than the Bay Area for half the years in the last decade.
- bobbydroptables 7y ago
  It's really hard to wrap your head around whether a city is building a lot by looking at a raw number. But fewer than 7,000 building permits in a city of 8 million is frighteningly little. You need to compare it to population growth, decades of building backlog, job growth, etc.
  - irq11 7y ago
    New construction in New York can have hundreds of units. I don’t know why you would automatically assume that 7,000 is a “frightening” number.
    - bobbydroptables 7y ago
      I probably could have made my comment clearer. I'm not assuming anything. It's well documented that NYC is building frighteningly little housing per capita. I was just pointing out the the linked post shows how NYC construction is stagnant, not "active". It was unclear if he meant "active" as in "they're building a large quantity" or as in "currently happening".
  - throwaway100773 7y ago
    New York City has been losing residents for some time. This is not a supply and demand thing as much as easy money policy chasing hard assets. I’ll have to dig it up the numbers, but Manhattan many condos are vacant, and have been bought by foreign money who don’t live in nyc or investors looking to park assets.
    - bobbydroptables 7y ago
      It's a complex problem but the value of NYC real estate for foreign investors assumes scarcity of NYC real estate. Foreign money or no, if you have a very desirable city with a growing job market and stagnant construction, prices will appreciate. I would challenge you to find a single counterexample Foreign money doesn't help prices but it's more a symptom of our problems than a cause. Also, NYC population is not declining. I wish. There have been some stagnant years but nowhere near enough to compensate for 50 years of underbuilding.
samspenc 7y ago
I'm not sure about the Bay Area, but at least for New York, it looks like building is picking up: https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-sees-biggest-home-building-boom-in-years-11580654688 https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-sees-biggest-home-buil... "Despite a weak outlook for residential real estate, the number of building permits issued in New York City for new homes surged last year to the highest pace since 2015. It was the second-highest total since the end of the last big building boom in 2008. Permits for 26,547 units of housing were issued in 2019, about 27% more than the year before ..."
- rjkennedy98 7y ago
  So New York is building a lot because they are building more than any time since 2015? Almost as much as they built in 2008? Is this a joke?
- KptMarchewa 7y ago
  It apparently has over 8 million units: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjFgv7S-NHnAhXk-ioKHfCVCI0QFjALegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffactfinder.census.gov%2Fbkmk%2Fcf%2F1.0%2Fen%2Fstate%2FNew%2520York%2FHOUSING%2FHOUSING_UNITS&usg=AOvVaw1W-O4aweCQEsUpgCkMaIBs https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c... So this is not even 0,5% of overall units.
likpok 7y ago
The bay area is building, but very unevenly. SOMA has a bunch of visible construction, as do certain places along El Camino. That can give the impression of building like crazy even when the reality is different. The other problem is the bay area only does megaprojects, so the little building it does is the extremely disruptive and visible kind.
- tathougies 7y ago
  > only does megaprojects That's because only megaprojects can afford to overcome all the regulatory and neighborhood hurdles. Do you think the average homeowner trying to become a landlord by converting their home into a duplex has enough money to pay for both sides of a law suit, as this developer had to?

bryanlarsen 7y ago

"In fact, Toronto currently has more cranes in the sky than New York City, Los Angeles, Seattle and Boston combined." https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2019/07/toronto-construction-cranes/ https://www.blogto.com/real-estate-toronto/2019/07/toronto-c... Toronto prices are crazy, so Toronto isn't building enough, let alone the major coastal American cities.

wpasc 7y ago

I don't think new york should be lumped in with california in that measure. This site shows active construction in new york: https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/html/nyc-active-major-construction.html https://www1.nyc.gov/assets/buildings/html/nyc-active-major-...

shuckles 7y ago
New York built fewer new homes per capita than the Bay Area for half the years in the last decade.
bobbydroptables 7y ago
It's really hard to wrap your head around whether a city is building a lot by looking at a raw number. But fewer than 7,000 building permits in a city of 8 million is frighteningly little. You need to compare it to population growth, decades of building backlog, job growth, etc.
- irq11 7y ago
  New construction in New York can have hundreds of units. I don’t know why you would automatically assume that 7,000 is a “frightening” number.
  - bobbydroptables 7y ago
    I probably could have made my comment clearer. I'm not assuming anything. It's well documented that NYC is building frighteningly little housing per capita. I was just pointing out the the linked post shows how NYC construction is stagnant, not "active". It was unclear if he meant "active" as in "they're building a large quantity" or as in "currently happening".
- throwaway100773 7y ago
  New York City has been losing residents for some time. This is not a supply and demand thing as much as easy money policy chasing hard assets. I’ll have to dig it up the numbers, but Manhattan many condos are vacant, and have been bought by foreign money who don’t live in nyc or investors looking to park assets.
  - bobbydroptables 7y ago
    It's a complex problem but the value of NYC real estate for foreign investors assumes scarcity of NYC real estate. Foreign money or no, if you have a very desirable city with a growing job market and stagnant construction, prices will appreciate. I would challenge you to find a single counterexample Foreign money doesn't help prices but it's more a symptom of our problems than a cause. Also, NYC population is not declining. I wish. There have been some stagnant years but nowhere near enough to compensate for 50 years of underbuilding.

samspenc 7y ago

I'm not sure about the Bay Area, but at least for New York, it looks like building is picking up: https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-sees-biggest-home-building-boom-in-years-11580654688 https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-york-sees-biggest-home-buil... "Despite a weak outlook for residential real estate, the number of building permits issued in New York City for new homes surged last year to the highest pace since 2015. It was the second-highest total since the end of the last big building boom in 2008. Permits for 26,547 units of housing were issued in 2019, about 27% more than the year before ..."

rjkennedy98 7y ago
So New York is building a lot because they are building more than any time since 2015? Almost as much as they built in 2008? Is this a joke?
KptMarchewa 7y ago
It apparently has over 8 million units: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=12&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=2ahUKEwjFgv7S-NHnAhXk-ioKHfCVCI0QFjALegQIBBAB&url=https%3A%2F%2Ffactfinder.census.gov%2Fbkmk%2Fcf%2F1.0%2Fen%2Fstate%2FNew%2520York%2FHOUSING%2FHOUSING_UNITS&usg=AOvVaw1W-O4aweCQEsUpgCkMaIBs https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&c... So this is not even 0,5% of overall units.

likpok 7y ago

The bay area is building, but very unevenly. SOMA has a bunch of visible construction, as do certain places along El Camino. That can give the impression of building like crazy even when the reality is different. The other problem is the bay area only does megaprojects, so the little building it does is the extremely disruptive and visible kind.

tathougies 7y ago
> only does megaprojects That's because only megaprojects can afford to overcome all the regulatory and neighborhood hurdles. Do you think the average homeowner trying to become a landlord by converting their home into a duplex has enough money to pay for both sides of a law suit, as this developer had to?