5 ms·

Personally, I am a big anti-fan of the Spaced Repetition. IMHO it is a wonderful solution to a wrong problem (i.e. memorizing random things). Sure, there are u

by stared 7y ago

Personally, I am a big anti-fan of the Spaced Repetition. IMHO it is a wonderful solution to a wrong problem (i.e. memorizing random things). Sure, there are use cases: learning words in a language one is not exposed to on a daily basis or cramming for a medical school exam. When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. With the frequencies as these things are used in practice. Everything else can be looked up later. For programming, maths, physics, etc - "I forgot" means more or less "it is more time-efficient to google it once a few years than put effort in storing in in my memory". In programming, it is even more the case: libraries, their APIs, and good practices keep changing. Rote memorization may be highly counterproductive in this case.

jackinloadup 7y ago
Do you have any suggestions on alternative methods, personal or otherwise?
- positr0n 7y ago
  Their suggestion is in this sentence: > When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. So if you're trying to learn react, don't try to memorize the API. Just use react and you'll naturally have spaced repetition of the important bits. The unimportant bits that are rarely used you'll have to google when you occasionally need them.
  - misiti3780 7y ago
    I agree, but with something like react, I may use SRS to memorize the order of the lifecycle methods, etc.
BeetleB 7y ago
> When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. With the frequencies as these things are used in practice. Everything else can be looked up later. Disagree: There's a grey area in the middle where it is costly to always look it up, but you don't do it often enough to ever be ingrained in memory. SRS is a fairly effortless way to cure it. When I started my current job (somewhat math heavy), I didn't know enough background material. So I got put on a "side" project while I learn the main material. Unfortunately, that side project became fairly big so I didn't have too much time to study the bread and butter of that job. I would read a little from a text book every few weeks. Without SRS, there is no way that I would be able to do it. The frequency is low enough that natural reading would not preserve anything in memory, and it is one of those books that constantly refers to prior theorems/definitions. > For programming, maths, physics, etc - "I forgot" means more or less "it is more time-efficient to google it once a few years than put effort in storing in in my memory". You really cannot do mathematics well that way. When proving a theorem, you often will not even remember there is a theorem that could help you unless it's already in memory. I once took a course on measure theory where it was a given that at least one question on each exam would be to prove a random theorem in the book. This was frustrating - since when should math require memorizing? And memorizing all the theorems? Sheesh! When I was preparing for the final exam, I did attempt to memorize all the proofs. And then it hit me: There were certain proof techniques that were common to many proofs, and I had not picked up on it by merely doing the assigned problems. This was a decade ago, when I did not use SRS (did try, but failed that time). Looking back at my experience in math courses, I realize that memory was definitely a bottleneck. Remembering certain theorems you took in a course a few semesters ago just wasn't happening beyond a certain young age (20). If I ever were to go back to math, I would definitely attempt some SRS use. Of course, SRS alone won't cut it. You still need to solve lots of problems. Oh, and after a decade of very heavy Emacs use, I tried using SRS to get better. And I did. A lot. So even heavy use isn't much of a guarantee that things will stick.
- stared 7y ago
  Well, I finished a mathematical physics PhD, without a hint of SRS. During my undergraduate time I knew people memorizing instead of trying to understand theorems (especially ones with background in chemistry). Often they got good exam results... and almost never it helped to build a bigger picture, or do research in mathematics. That said, I have ADHD and any small-dose-but-regular learning (typical for classes!) was painful to me (and not to effective). YMMV.
  - BeetleB 7y ago
    > During my undergraduate time I knew people memorizing instead of trying to understand theorems (especially ones with background in chemistry). As I pointed out in another comment, this is a false dichotomy. You can do both. I contend that one who attempts to understand and memorize will know the material better than one who doesn't. The thrust of my argument isn't that it is necessary. It's that you will gain from it. Of course, if you make that your only tool in the toolbox, you will suffer. And I never claimed that not memorizing will prevent degrees. I'm sure while in grad school you came across plenty of less capable people than you who nevertheless still got a PhD ;-)
  - wkey 7y ago
    I would be curious as to any techniques you used to overcome this painful regular learning. I find certain 'plain' tasks (for lack of a better word) excruciating.
    - stared 7y ago
      Read "Driven to distraction" https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Distraction-Revised-Recognizing-Attention/dp/0307743152 https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Distraction-Revised-Recognizin..., you may resonate with some of these points (even if you don't experience a full-blown ADHD). In my case, well, if something really needs to be regular, the only way to go is external pressure (external deadlines, people meeting at a given time with the goal to learn) and bringing some intensity (instead of 1h learning, a day focused on that).
- 7y ago
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
AlchemistCamp 7y ago
Yes. This is spot on. Another issue is losing the larger picture. In the language learning example, Extensive Reading leads to not only picking up and remembering words, but also collocations, grammar and even cultural beliefs of the speakers of the target language. Single word flash cards miss all of that. Full sentence flashcards do a bit better but still fall short. I think the best use for SRS for something like a language or programming is for laying down a scaffold in the very early stages of learning, and then moving to more productive uses of study time as soon as possible.

by stared 7y ago

jackinloadup 7y ago

Do you have any suggestions on alternative methods, personal or otherwise?

positr0n 7y ago
Their suggestion is in this sentence: > When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. So if you're trying to learn react, don't try to memorize the API. Just use react and you'll naturally have spaced repetition of the important bits. The unimportant bits that are rarely used you'll have to google when you occasionally need them.
- misiti3780 7y ago
  I agree, but with something like react, I may use SRS to memorize the order of the lifecycle methods, etc.

BeetleB 7y ago

> When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. With the frequencies as these things are used in practice. Everything else can be looked up later. Disagree: There's a grey area in the middle where it is costly to always look it up, but you don't do it often enough to ever be ingrained in memory. SRS is a fairly effortless way to cure it. When I started my current job (somewhat math heavy), I didn't know enough background material. So I got put on a "side" project while I learn the main material. Unfortunately, that side project became fairly big so I didn't have too much time to study the bread and butter of that job. I would read a little from a text book every few weeks. Without SRS, there is no way that I would be able to do it. The frequency is low enough that natural reading would not preserve anything in memory, and it is one of those books that constantly refers to prior theorems/definitions. > For programming, maths, physics, etc - "I forgot" means more or less "it is more time-efficient to google it once a few years than put effort in storing in in my memory". You really cannot do mathematics well that way. When proving a theorem, you often will not even remember there is a theorem that could help you unless it's already in memory. I once took a course on measure theory where it was a given that at least one question on each exam would be to prove a random theorem in the book. This was frustrating - since when should math require memorizing? And memorizing all the theorems? Sheesh! When I was preparing for the final exam, I did attempt to memorize all the proofs. And then it hit me: There were certain proof techniques that were common to many proofs, and I had not picked up on it by merely doing the assigned problems. This was a decade ago, when I did not use SRS (did try, but failed that time). Looking back at my experience in math courses, I realize that memory was definitely a bottleneck. Remembering certain theorems you took in a course a few semesters ago just wasn't happening beyond a certain young age (20). If I ever were to go back to math, I would definitely attempt some SRS use. Of course, SRS alone won't cut it. You still need to solve lots of problems. Oh, and after a decade of very heavy Emacs use, I tried using SRS to get better. And I did. A lot. So even heavy use isn't much of a guarantee that things will stick.

stared 7y ago
Well, I finished a mathematical physics PhD, without a hint of SRS. During my undergraduate time I knew people memorizing instead of trying to understand theorems (especially ones with background in chemistry). Often they got good exam results... and almost never it helped to build a bigger picture, or do research in mathematics. That said, I have ADHD and any small-dose-but-regular learning (typical for classes!) was painful to me (and not to effective). YMMV.
- BeetleB 7y ago
  > During my undergraduate time I knew people memorizing instead of trying to understand theorems (especially ones with background in chemistry). As I pointed out in another comment, this is a false dichotomy. You can do both. I contend that one who attempts to understand and memorize will know the material better than one who doesn't. The thrust of my argument isn't that it is necessary. It's that you will gain from it. Of course, if you make that your only tool in the toolbox, you will suffer. And I never claimed that not memorizing will prevent degrees. I'm sure while in grad school you came across plenty of less capable people than you who nevertheless still got a PhD ;-)
- wkey 7y ago
  I would be curious as to any techniques you used to overcome this painful regular learning. I find certain 'plain' tasks (for lack of a better word) excruciating.
  - stared 7y ago
    Read "Driven to distraction" https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Distraction-Revised-Recognizing-Attention/dp/0307743152 https://www.amazon.com/Driven-Distraction-Revised-Recognizin..., you may resonate with some of these points (even if you don't experience a full-blown ADHD). In my case, well, if something really needs to be regular, the only way to go is external pressure (external deadlines, people meeting at a given time with the goal to learn) and bringing some intensity (instead of 1h learning, a day focused on that).
7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

AlchemistCamp 7y ago

Yes. This is spot on. Another issue is losing the larger picture. In the language learning example, Extensive Reading leads to not only picking up and remembering words, but also collocations, grammar and even cultural beliefs of the speakers of the target language. Single word flash cards miss all of that. Full sentence flashcards do a bit better but still fall short. I think the best use for SRS for something like a language or programming is for laying down a scaffold in the very early stages of learning, and then moving to more productive uses of study time as soon as possible.