5 ms·

I'm a big fan of the idea of using Spaced Repetition for this. The idea is that it allows you to both: - be able to keep your knowledge / understanding of an a

I'm a big fan of the idea of using Spaced Repetition for this. The idea is that it allows you to both: - be able to keep your knowledge / understanding of an area around for the long term; but also - be able to gradually build up your understanding by first committing the fundamentals to memory, and then using that to build up your level of abstraction and get to the more complex ideas and principles. Michael Nielsen has written fairly extensive explanations of two slightly different approaches in: - Using spaced repetition systems to see through a piece of mathematics [1] - Augmenting Long-term Memory [2] I've only used this particular approach for a handful of subjects so far - indeed, it seems to just take time to build a high-quality, long-term understanding of a thing. However, I've been pretty happy with the process so far. [1] http://cognitivemedium.com/srs-mathematics http://cognitivemedium.com/srs-mathematics [2] http://augmentingcognition.com/ltm.html http://augmentingcognition.com/ltm.html

tvanantwerp 7y ago
I second using SRS--it's been very helpful for me to remember API minutiae or commands that I would otherwise have to google each time I needed it. For programming topics, I also try to make sure I'm using the information. I unfortunately have too many cards about topics that I never actually used, and they are frustrating upon review because I never had some practical structure to place them into mentally. Don't waste time trying to memorize thing you don't ever use. That said, SRS is good for memorizing trivia if you want to do that too. I've been using the Anki deck Ultimate Geography for a couple of months to memorize every country, capital, their flag, and location on a map. Useless, but kinda fun.
AlchemistCamp 7y ago
SRS is great for memorizing truly unconnected pieces of information, like names of capital cities. For anything where the information is connected, it's a lot better to use those connections instead of drilling it in a decontextualized fragments via SRS.
- BeetleB 7y ago
  > For anything where the information is connected, it's a lot better to use those connections instead of drilling it in a decontextualized fragments via SRS. It's a false dichotomy. You can, and IMO should, do both.
  - AlchemistCamp 7y ago
    It's not a false dichotomy because time is limited. Every minute spent on flashcards is a minute that cannot be spent on more contextualized study.
    - BeetleB 7y ago
      > Every minute spent on flashcards is a minute that cannot be spent on more contextualized study. I often spend less than 5 minutes in the morning on my flashcards. There's not much deep contextualizing you can do in 3-5 minutes. Certainly not in areas like physics. It is a false dichotomy. All minutes are not equal. I'll gain much more by spending less time on HN than by cutting out flash cards.
- xamuel 7y ago
  I find that my brain sort of automatically uses connections. The really interesting thing about SRS is that you don't have to consciously think about how you're going to remember the cards. Like, you don't consciously think, "Ok, what's the pattern here, how can I turn it into a mnemonic..." Rather, your brain subconsciously does that for you.
  - casualrandomcom 7y ago
    I have used SRS and found it powerful, but not that powerful. SRS only commanded the times of rehearsal but not the way memory consolidated. And it consolidated by creating connections. So I needed mnemonics, prompts and all the likes, on top of SRS.
- IvanVergiliev 7y ago
stared 7y ago
Personally, I am a big anti-fan of the Spaced Repetition. IMHO it is a wonderful solution to a wrong problem (i.e. memorizing random things). Sure, there are use cases: learning words in a language one is not exposed to on a daily basis or cramming for a medical school exam. When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. With the frequencies as these things are used in practice. Everything else can be looked up later. For programming, maths, physics, etc - "I forgot" means more or less "it is more time-efficient to google it once a few years than put effort in storing in in my memory". In programming, it is even more the case: libraries, their APIs, and good practices keep changing. Rote memorization may be highly counterproductive in this case.
- jackinloadup 7y ago
  Do you have any suggestions on alternative methods, personal or otherwise?
  - positr0n 7y ago
    Their suggestion is in this sentence: > When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. So if you're trying to learn react, don't try to memorize the API. Just use react and you'll naturally have spaced repetition of the important bits. The unimportant bits that are rarely used you'll have to google when you occasionally need them.
    - misiti3780 7y ago
      I agree, but with something like react, I may use SRS to memorize the order of the lifecycle methods, etc.
- BeetleB 7y ago
  > When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. With the frequencies as these things are used in practice. Everything else can be looked up later. Disagree: There's a grey area in the middle where it is costly to always look it up, but you don't do it often enough to ever be ingrained in memory. SRS is a fairly effortless way to cure it. When I started my current job (somewhat math heavy), I didn't know enough background material. So I got put on a "side" project while I learn the main material. Unfortunately, that side project became fairly big so I didn't have too much time to study the bread and butter of that job. I would read a little from a text book every few weeks. Without SRS, there is no way that I would be able to do it. The frequency is low enough that natural reading would not preserve anything in memory, and it is one of those books that constantly refers to prior theorems/definitions. > For programming, maths, physics, etc - "I forgot" means more or less "it is more time-efficient to google it once a few years than put effort in storing in in my memory". You really cannot do mathematics well that way. When proving a theorem, you often will not even remember there is a theorem that could help you unless it's already in memory. I once took a course on measure theory where it was a given that at least one question on each exam would be to prove a random theorem in the book. This was frustrating - since when should math require memorizing? And memorizing all the theorems? Sheesh! When I was preparing for the final exam, I did attempt to memorize all the proofs. And then it hit me: There were certain proof techniques that were common to many proofs, and I had not picked up on it by merely doing the assigned problems. This was a decade ago, when I did not use SRS (did try, but failed that time). Looking back at my experience in math courses, I realize that memory was definitely a bottleneck. Remembering certain theorems you took in a course a few semesters ago just wasn't happening beyond a certain young age (20). If I ever were to go back to math, I would definitely attempt some SRS use. Of course, SRS alone won't cut it. You still need to solve lots of problems. Oh, and after a decade of very heavy Emacs use, I tried using SRS to get better. And I did. A lot. So even heavy use isn't much of a guarantee that things will stick.

tvanantwerp 7y ago

I second using SRS--it's been very helpful for me to remember API minutiae or commands that I would otherwise have to google each time I needed it. For programming topics, I also try to make sure I'm using the information. I unfortunately have too many cards about topics that I never actually used, and they are frustrating upon review because I never had some practical structure to place them into mentally. Don't waste time trying to memorize thing you don't ever use. That said, SRS is good for memorizing trivia if you want to do that too. I've been using the Anki deck Ultimate Geography for a couple of months to memorize every country, capital, their flag, and location on a map. Useless, but kinda fun.

AlchemistCamp 7y ago

SRS is great for memorizing truly unconnected pieces of information, like names of capital cities. For anything where the information is connected, it's a lot better to use those connections instead of drilling it in a decontextualized fragments via SRS.

BeetleB 7y ago
> For anything where the information is connected, it's a lot better to use those connections instead of drilling it in a decontextualized fragments via SRS. It's a false dichotomy. You can, and IMO should, do both.
- AlchemistCamp 7y ago
  It's not a false dichotomy because time is limited. Every minute spent on flashcards is a minute that cannot be spent on more contextualized study.
  - BeetleB 7y ago
    > Every minute spent on flashcards is a minute that cannot be spent on more contextualized study. I often spend less than 5 minutes in the morning on my flashcards. There's not much deep contextualizing you can do in 3-5 minutes. Certainly not in areas like physics. It is a false dichotomy. All minutes are not equal. I'll gain much more by spending less time on HN than by cutting out flash cards.
xamuel 7y ago
I find that my brain sort of automatically uses connections. The really interesting thing about SRS is that you don't have to consciously think about how you're going to remember the cards. Like, you don't consciously think, "Ok, what's the pattern here, how can I turn it into a mnemonic..." Rather, your brain subconsciously does that for you.
- casualrandomcom 7y ago
  I have used SRS and found it powerful, but not that powerful. SRS only commanded the times of rehearsal but not the way memory consolidated. And it consolidated by creating connections. So I needed mnemonics, prompts and all the likes, on top of SRS.
IvanVergiliev 7y ago

stared 7y ago

Personally, I am a big anti-fan of the Spaced Repetition. IMHO it is a wonderful solution to a wrong problem (i.e. memorizing random things). Sure, there are use cases: learning words in a language one is not exposed to on a daily basis or cramming for a medical school exam. When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. With the frequencies as these things are used in practice. Everything else can be looked up later. For programming, maths, physics, etc - "I forgot" means more or less "it is more time-efficient to google it once a few years than put effort in storing in in my memory". In programming, it is even more the case: libraries, their APIs, and good practices keep changing. Rote memorization may be highly counterproductive in this case.

jackinloadup 7y ago
Do you have any suggestions on alternative methods, personal or otherwise?
- positr0n 7y ago
  Their suggestion is in this sentence: > When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. So if you're trying to learn react, don't try to memorize the API. Just use react and you'll naturally have spaced repetition of the important bits. The unimportant bits that are rarely used you'll have to google when you occasionally need them.
  - misiti3780 7y ago
    I agree, but with something like react, I may use SRS to memorize the order of the lifecycle methods, etc.
BeetleB 7y ago
> When one actively uses something, there is a natural spaced repetition of the things that matter. With the frequencies as these things are used in practice. Everything else can be looked up later. Disagree: There's a grey area in the middle where it is costly to always look it up, but you don't do it often enough to ever be ingrained in memory. SRS is a fairly effortless way to cure it. When I started my current job (somewhat math heavy), I didn't know enough background material. So I got put on a "side" project while I learn the main material. Unfortunately, that side project became fairly big so I didn't have too much time to study the bread and butter of that job. I would read a little from a text book every few weeks. Without SRS, there is no way that I would be able to do it. The frequency is low enough that natural reading would not preserve anything in memory, and it is one of those books that constantly refers to prior theorems/definitions. > For programming, maths, physics, etc - "I forgot" means more or less "it is more time-efficient to google it once a few years than put effort in storing in in my memory". You really cannot do mathematics well that way. When proving a theorem, you often will not even remember there is a theorem that could help you unless it's already in memory. I once took a course on measure theory where it was a given that at least one question on each exam would be to prove a random theorem in the book. This was frustrating - since when should math require memorizing? And memorizing all the theorems? Sheesh! When I was preparing for the final exam, I did attempt to memorize all the proofs. And then it hit me: There were certain proof techniques that were common to many proofs, and I had not picked up on it by merely doing the assigned problems. This was a decade ago, when I did not use SRS (did try, but failed that time). Looking back at my experience in math courses, I realize that memory was definitely a bottleneck. Remembering certain theorems you took in a course a few semesters ago just wasn't happening beyond a certain young age (20). If I ever were to go back to math, I would definitely attempt some SRS use. Of course, SRS alone won't cut it. You still need to solve lots of problems. Oh, and after a decade of very heavy Emacs use, I tried using SRS to get better. And I did. A lot. So even heavy use isn't much of a guarantee that things will stick.