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User agents already can ignore css and have user defined stylesheets and even JavaScript. None if this is new and it's a failure of our profession that that is

User agents already can ignore css and have user defined stylesheets and even JavaScript. None if this is new and it's a failure of our profession that that is abnormal and produces spectacularly poor results for users.

onion2k 7y ago
Users should be able to override the default behaviour of their browser if they want to, but the default behaviour should still be defined by the HTML spec rather than the browser vendor. It's really frustrating when two browsers implement important parts the spec differently and push website developers to work around the behaviour one browser or the other with browser-specific code. It doesn't lead to sites being rendered differently as developers embrace the variety of user agents. It leads to people adding "This site is best viewed in Netscape Navigator" gif or "This application requires Chrome" on log in pages. Those are bad things.
- jimktrains2 7y ago
  Maybe the solution is to let go of this notion that every device needs to render exactly the way the designers want and embrace that difference. I've been on the internet since the mid 90s. I'm well aware of what was, andit was that way because people then as now wanted things to look and act exactly like they wanted and not embrace that not everyone wants or needs your carefully crafted graphical design.
  - onion2k 7y ago
    I don't have any notion that sites should be exactly the same in every browser, but they should be approximately the same. Having two browsers render the same HTML in completely different ways would be very odd.
    - jimktrains2 7y ago
      >Having two browsers render the same HTML in completely different ways would be very odd Or completely normal? Why shouldn't I bump up my minimum don't size to help read text and reduce eyestrain? Ditto for fixing low contrast text.
      - onion2k 7y ago
        You should, and the browser should let you. But if the text is set to 14px in the HTML or CSS and your browser is set to display it at the defined size, it should display at 14px. Browser vendors shouldn't decide to ignore the spec of using the defined size and do their own thing instead. That's what was being suggested.

onion2k 7y ago

Users should be able to override the default behaviour of their browser if they want to, but the default behaviour should still be defined by the HTML spec rather than the browser vendor. It's really frustrating when two browsers implement important parts the spec differently and push website developers to work around the behaviour one browser or the other with browser-specific code. It doesn't lead to sites being rendered differently as developers embrace the variety of user agents. It leads to people adding "This site is best viewed in Netscape Navigator" gif or "This application requires Chrome" on log in pages. Those are bad things.

jimktrains2 7y ago
Maybe the solution is to let go of this notion that every device needs to render exactly the way the designers want and embrace that difference. I've been on the internet since the mid 90s. I'm well aware of what was, andit was that way because people then as now wanted things to look and act exactly like they wanted and not embrace that not everyone wants or needs your carefully crafted graphical design.
- onion2k 7y ago
  I don't have any notion that sites should be exactly the same in every browser, but they should be approximately the same. Having two browsers render the same HTML in completely different ways would be very odd.
  - jimktrains2 7y ago
    >Having two browsers render the same HTML in completely different ways would be very odd Or completely normal? Why shouldn't I bump up my minimum don't size to help read text and reduce eyestrain? Ditto for fixing low contrast text.
    - onion2k 7y ago
      You should, and the browser should let you. But if the text is set to 14px in the HTML or CSS and your browser is set to display it at the defined size, it should display at 14px. Browser vendors shouldn't decide to ignore the spec of using the defined size and do their own thing instead. That's what was being suggested.