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> real underlying issue, which is that Huawei and others have been systematically and openly stealing property. Issue for whom? Most people are perfectly happy

by effie 7y ago

> real underlying issue, which is that Huawei and others have been systematically and openly stealing property. Issue for whom? Most people are perfectly happy with one company learning and mimicking products of another company, if they get cheaper and better versions. This is perfectly natural. If some rich guys feel like China got ahead of them too much too quickly, that's too bad - they should have protected their stuff, not teach Chinese to manufacture it.

jariel 7y ago
Sending in spies to steal protected information is blatant theft by any definition. The number of people here trying to downplay what's going on is astonishing, I can only imagine they themselves are not legit posters.
- effie 7y ago
  State and corporate espionage isn't anything new. As well as learning and copying business (your "theft"). Japanese did the same with semiconductors. I don't know what _exactly_ has been going on with Huawei and other companies, but I understand that the publicized outrage about Huawei and other Chinese companies stealing from America isn't natural. Most people were fine with Chinese advancing and copying, since everybody benefited from cheap labor/products. Until the powerful in the West realized american economy is in bad shape, power balance in the world is shifting and it's time to do something about it. I guess shaping public opinion on China is part of that.
  - jariel 7y ago
    "State and corporate espionage isn't anything new." 'State espionage' for issues of security is understandable and nobody is screaming about it. "I understand that the publicized outrage about Huawei and other Chinese companies stealing from America isn't natural" This is really not true. It's 100% natural to be concerned about the blatant theft of research and IP. Literally Huawei was rewarding staffers for stuff they'd stolen. In fact, I'd argue that it's 'unnatural' for people not to be concerned about it. "Most people were fine with Chinese advancing and copying, since everybody benefited from cheap labor/products. " No way - that was not 'China stealing IP' - that was China using their competitive advantage: labour, factories, supply chains to add value. This is a good thing and few were complaining other than those who lost jobs. Everyone else was winning. "Until the powerful in the West realized american economy is in bad shape" ? The US has the lowest unemployment in 25 years, the lowest unemployment ever for African Americans, stocks are at crazy all-time highs. While nobody will ever say it's rosy, and historical growth is a little low, the US is overall doing just fine. This is all a distraction: China and Huawei stealing IP and other elements and it's blatantly illegal and a serious transgression of international norms of trade. Why would any company in the world even allow Huawei staff anywhere near their workers or offices, knowing that they're literally trying to steal whatever they can? The consequences of this are real and will factor into how nations contemplate trading with China.

by effie 7y ago

jariel 7y ago

Sending in spies to steal protected information is blatant theft by any definition. The number of people here trying to downplay what's going on is astonishing, I can only imagine they themselves are not legit posters.

effie 7y ago
State and corporate espionage isn't anything new. As well as learning and copying business (your "theft"). Japanese did the same with semiconductors. I don't know what _exactly_ has been going on with Huawei and other companies, but I understand that the publicized outrage about Huawei and other Chinese companies stealing from America isn't natural. Most people were fine with Chinese advancing and copying, since everybody benefited from cheap labor/products. Until the powerful in the West realized american economy is in bad shape, power balance in the world is shifting and it's time to do something about it. I guess shaping public opinion on China is part of that.
- jariel 7y ago
  "State and corporate espionage isn't anything new." 'State espionage' for issues of security is understandable and nobody is screaming about it. "I understand that the publicized outrage about Huawei and other Chinese companies stealing from America isn't natural" This is really not true. It's 100% natural to be concerned about the blatant theft of research and IP. Literally Huawei was rewarding staffers for stuff they'd stolen. In fact, I'd argue that it's 'unnatural' for people not to be concerned about it. "Most people were fine with Chinese advancing and copying, since everybody benefited from cheap labor/products. " No way - that was not 'China stealing IP' - that was China using their competitive advantage: labour, factories, supply chains to add value. This is a good thing and few were complaining other than those who lost jobs. Everyone else was winning. "Until the powerful in the West realized american economy is in bad shape" ? The US has the lowest unemployment in 25 years, the lowest unemployment ever for African Americans, stocks are at crazy all-time highs. While nobody will ever say it's rosy, and historical growth is a little low, the US is overall doing just fine. This is all a distraction: China and Huawei stealing IP and other elements and it's blatantly illegal and a serious transgression of international norms of trade. Why would any company in the world even allow Huawei staff anywhere near their workers or offices, knowing that they're literally trying to steal whatever they can? The consequences of this are real and will factor into how nations contemplate trading with China.