9 ms·

Why Can’t Tablet Makers Just Freaking Ship?

128 points by solipsist 16y ago

dnsworks 16y ago
Just the title alone is funny coming from Techcrunch, "makers" of the "crunchpad".
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
muhfuhkuh 16y ago
Because it's really hard to make a market-reactive product that is more powerful and featureful than the preceding product it is catching up to clone. Apple just happened to have caught the entire planet with it's pants down when they introduced the i-Devices. I mean, look at what Google was working on[1] after Apple introduced the original iPhone. Google was chasing the market leader in style and interface at the time (Blackberry). When Apple introduced iPhone 3G, all bets were off and Google went back to the drawing board. iPod Touch is introduced, and the only real competitor that comes to the fore is Microsoft, with the Zune (RIP) brand that mimics the Touch to no end and barely does anything better (yes, I'm taking the soon-to-be-dead Zune Pass into account). Now it's tablets, and again, the rest of the industry reacts. I'm certainly surprised MS hasn't tried to hook up with a HW vendor to make a Phone 7 tablet. Apple is on a hot streak. First with seriously consumer-friendly smartphones, then with software and media ecosystems, now with disruptive computing platforms. It'll eventually run out of steam, but will the rest of the industry kill itself trying to keep up in the meantime? [1] http://news.cnet.com/2300-1037_3-6230132.html http://news.cnet.com/2300-1037_3-6230132.html
- martythemaniak 16y ago
  Beyond a superficial "touchable screen", most of Apple's tablet competitors have been heavily influenced WebOS - watch the PlayBook and TouchPad in action and you'll see navigation and multitasking are almost identical, as is the gestures used to control the device (swiping a card up to close the app). Meanwhile, the guy behind WebOS is the same guy behind Honeycomb, which also borrows the task manager and (don't know which came first) notifications.
  - blinkingled 16y ago
    But it just isn't cool to say the tablet makers are copying webOS or have their own guts (Android notification system, while nothing like webOS is still distinct and lot better designed for example) - people just love being told that everything interesting in the universe is copied from Apple :)
    - sjs 16y ago
      Whether you like Apple or not they are the only ones shipping a decent tablet right now. I'm more excited about HP's webOS stuff than iPhone 5 or iPad 2.
      - blinkingled 16y ago
        True, but for me, the decent tablet Apple ships isn't nearly enough. I need Flash, decent multitasking, USB port, normal file system access and more so a standalone device not tied to my computer in any way shape or form. To that end Xoom is looking great and may be webOS will beat it in most key departments, but I can buy Xoom like next week.
        sjs 16y ago
        webOS looks great. Summer will be here before you know it.
    - sambeau 16y ago
      Interesting, of course, that the multitasking UI was copied from the original iPhone Mobile Safari UI. :)
      - blinkingled 16y ago
        But of course original iPhone Mobile Safari never went anywhere near the word multitasking but that aside - correct me if I am mistaken but original iPhone Mobile Safari did not use a card system - i.e. you could not swipe up the Safari windows to dismiss them or anything which is the most innovative feature of the webOS multitasking. Just showing mini windows side by side that can be closed using a X button - that was done long time before iPhone.
- checoivan 16y ago
  Agree. It's harder than it seems. There's tons of things to consider with hardware related products. Imagine all the conditions: from software, to users, people with disabilities, hardware conditions, if it heats up, if the environment is too humid, too cold, if it gets dropped, and so on. This things take time. If a tablet pops up today it doesn't mean it was built in 3 months by a handfull of hackers and redbull, there's tons of work behind. Apple just happend to execute really, really well on it.
- sudont 16y ago
  This is marketing 101: create an original position, a USP. [1] What's going on now, is a bunch of suits and managers who want to ride on Jobs' coattails and build me-too products for a market they don't actually understand one bit. The fervor over subscriptions should be a key to these idiots that there is a strong market for an actually open device: instead they're taking the main competitor, an open source project even, and making it functionally more closed than iOS to an average user. Apple is hammering away at the middle-road consumer, and Google's OS is not only positioned as "me too, but also everything!", it's being filtered through handset manufacturers who have their own agendas, which run counter to what Android suggests to be. My suggestion? Google builds a durable tablet for academics and scientists to research in the field with. Because of Android's open nature, it would be trivial to open up an entire ecosystem of sensors and data loggers that would integrate. The best gift I ever got for my father was a kill-a-watt, there's a huge, untapped consumer market for data collection and processing. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positioning_(marketing)#Product_positioning_process http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positioning_(marketing)#Product...
  - silvestrov 16y ago
    Because of Android's open nature, it would be trivial to open up an entire ecosystem of sensors and data loggers that would integrate I think it would be easy for Apple to match this: they can just add a USB host port to the iPad and allow apps to talk to connected devices. Almost everything today is USB-based. Apple just does a little step at a time instead of completely opening the barn door as the first step.
    - mlinsey 16y ago
      Agreed. I don't see why Apple would reject apps that connect to external sensors. There are already many such apps that use Bluetooth (eg Wakemate) or the headphone jack (eg Square), although getting approved to link up with the bottom port is supposedly a pain. If you want to take advantage of the closed nature of Apple's platform, you have to push the kind of apps they don't like. So far, that's mostly just home screen customizations and pirated games, I guess. Google Voice was looking like a killer app not-available-on-iOS but Apple backed off of that one.
- greyman 16y ago
  I am also surprised why MS at least doesn't talk about WP7 tablet. Nobody wants Win7 tablet with desktop software, so the only option left is that Win8 will natively support tablets, but then, what about apps?
  - protomyth 16y ago
    I think WP7 has one big problem for apps, unlike iOS and Android, it doesn't do OpenGL ES. I think this is going to make it an issue to port.
  - pixcavator 16y ago
    I have HP Slate. It's "Win7 tablet with desktop software" which is exactly what I wanted.
    - illumin8 16y ago
      That's great, it probably requires a stylus and gets less than 5 hours of battery life... go you.
      - pixcavator 16y ago
        It allows a stylus... probably!
  - contextfree 16y ago
    After resetting Windows Mobile development they had their hands full just getting WP7 out on phones, and it's still missing features like a decent web browser which are already pretty bad on a phone but would be crippling on a tablet. It would probably take them another year to do a reasonable port, at which point it's not that far from the release of Windows 8 anyway.
- GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
  When apple announced the iPad, it was near completion. Thats why it shipped soon. There was no pre-ipad were gonna make it but wont ship it till 5 yrs later release. That is the benefit of being first.
- gaius 16y ago
  Windows XP Tablet Edition shipped in 2001.
- mturmon 16y ago
  Also, remember this good observation in the OP: "Apple has the tablet component market sewn up. An entrepreneur I talked to in China described the difficulty he still has buying touchscreens that are worth a darn. The real reason most of the current tablets are 7 inches? Because Apple bought up all of the 10-inch capacitive touchscreen stock and if they didn’t then they drove the price too high for smaller orders. There is no way to dabble in the market without paying a premium."
tghw 16y ago
Somewhat ironic commentary considering they were just as unable to ship the CrunchPad. And what did ship (the JooJoo) got completely panned in the reviews. Really the issue is that hardware is hard to get right and requires a lot of resources, resources that Apple has and many other companies do not.
- taylorbuley 16y ago
  Right on. Seems like polishing the prototype isn't the only hard part. Operations/supply/etc. are not trivial processes.
- whakojacko 16y ago
  "Really the issue is that hardware is hard to get right and requires a lot of resources, resources that Apple has and many other companies do not." More than just that, Apple also has the considerable advantage of owning almost all of their stack. They make their own chips to power their hardware which runs their OS which uses their applications and their infrastructure. Apple has aggressively taken control of the entire top to bottom stack (eg App Store reviews, acquiring PA Semi) like nobody else has been willing and/or able to.
  - martythemaniak 16y ago
    Samsung makes their processor.
    - whakojacko 16y ago
      Samsung manufactures their processor. But the design of the A4 was done in-house by Apple. Edit: It does appear that Samsung helped design it, thanks for the correction HN :) I think my overall point still stands though
      - patrickaljord 16y ago
        A4 is just a customized version of the latest ARM.
ardit33 16y ago
From first hand experience, it takes up two years to ship a new product that is of a decent quality. Assuming a lot of the hardware OEM started working on a tablet device around second half of 2009 when the iPad rumors started, then the later half of 2011 is when the tablets will start shipping. It just not that simple as slaping few components together, put some software on top and you are done. My guess on the age of engaget, or "i build an web app in two weeks" posts, people expect that manufactures can come with great new devices overnight. Also when you are working with hardware you have to consider supply chain capacity, component quality, etc. Hardware is just a lot harder to build and harder to scale(and maybe thats why PG advocates startups to steer away from it as much as they can).
- wmeredith 16y ago
  That's fine and dandy, but quit showing mock-ups and talking about how great they are going to be and how they're going to change your life and all the other heavy breathing. Wait until it ships.
- achompas 16y ago
  Also when you are working with hardware you have to consider supply chain capacity, component quality, etc. You have to wonder how component supplies will be affected by Apple's orders. I hear they're responsible for 60% of all display orders right now [0], and they also have the famously secretive "component agreement" they announced during their last earnings call. It's possible that non-Apple product shipments will be delayed out to 2012 as a result. [0] http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/17/with_60_of_worlds_touch_panel_capacity_apple_squeezes_competitors.html http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/17/with_60_of_wor...
martythemaniak 16y ago
Why can't the blogoechochamber just fucking relax? It's been less than a year since the iPad launched, tablets haven't made it to most people's radars yet and the market will play out over the next 5-10 years. In the grand scheme of things, who actually cares whether the Xoom ships on Feb 17 or gets "delayed" to Feb 22, or that RIM announced March availability for the PlayBook and will instead ship it in April?
- neworbit 16y ago
  Oh gawd yes. There seems to be some conception that Apple has nailed it with the iPad and competition is impossible. Gang, the devices we're going to be able to get in three years will make today's iPad look as useful as a brushed-metal frisbee. There's a lot of innovation left to come.
  - rimantas 16y ago
    iPhone was announced four years ago. In that time a lot of innovation had to come. Well, we got iPad, from Apple…
    - neworbit 16y ago
      LOL I like it. But in all seriousness the Android phones we have today are way better than our choices from back in that era, even the ones running dated 2.1 OS... curse you AT&T! Blackberry REALLY changed mobile phones. Then a lot of catchup. Apple did it again. Then a lot of catchup. I don't expect the story stops here...
      - mryall 16y ago
        The phones are better, yes, since the iPhone. But I think in more of an incremental way rather than an revolutionary, innovative way.
        dasil003 16y ago
        I never had a Blackberry, but really? The things I do with my Nexus One are amazing. The Google Maps/GPS, podcasts with Doggcatcher, and the general Gmail / Contacts / Facebook / Twitter integration is amazing. I imagine Blackberry as being good for texting and email, but not really a drop in the bucket in terms of the larger lifestyle stuff.
mburns 16y ago
The problem of designing and manufacturing a new product is harder than you think.
- tesseract 16y ago
  The problem of sourcing components and getting them delivered in a timely fashion is harder than you think. Especially on the heels of a global recession that caused suppliers to cut back on their manufacturing output.
sambeau 16y ago
I suspect this has something to do with it, too: "Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight supply" http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110216PD219.html http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110216PD219.html
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
jasongullickson 16y ago
What are you waiting for? http://www.apple.com/ipad/ http://www.apple.com/ipad/ Seriously though, what is so compelling about the non-shipping tablets that makes them worth waiting for (or complaining about) than what Apple is already shipping? Aside from the arguments that don't impact most consumers (jailbreaking, etc.) could it be that it's just not in the cards at the moment to come out with a device that competes with the iPad (price, performance, whatever, pick your metric)?
- tomjen3 16y ago
  I want a tablet with flash that I can also use as an USB drive. Neither of those things are stuff that doesn't impact consumers.
  - rayiner 16y ago
    You want to use a $500 tablet as a $20 flash drive? And carry a USB cable that'll take up more space in aforementioned $20 flash drive? That is really one of the problems with Apples' competitors - they just don't get the use cases.
    - T-hawk 16y ago
      I think the parent meant Adobe Flash.
      - rayiner 16y ago
        Fair point, but using it as a USB drive? To what end?
        guelo 16y ago
        The idea is to be able to move music and movies on and off the device without having to go through iTunes and the nightmare of "syncing" to only one computer at a time.
        16y ago
thought_alarm 16y ago
iOS is merely an iteration of a platform that's been under development for over 20 years. It took Microsoft over 10 years to create a consumer-friendly version of Windows NT, and almost another 10 years to deliver an acceptable followup. Software is hard. Consumer software much harder. Platforms take years and years to develop and mature.
Bitmobrich 16y ago
So when is the CrunchPad being shipped?
cletus 16y ago
There are several reasons: 1. It takes time to develop the supply chain, product design and so forth; 2. Apple completely caught the industry with its pants down, creating a market where previously there was none where the consensus seemed to be that tablets were niche products; 3. Apple's competitors are constantly chasing last year's Apple product. It's why it's a huge mistake (IMHO) for competitors to draw attention to the iPad: at some point very shortly there will be a newer better iPad and suddenly they won't want to make those comparisons anymore (at least not for awhile); 4. These companies generally have absolutely no understanding of the markets they're entering. It's what I call the Cargo Cult School of Product Management; and 5. Whereas Apple went all-in with the iPad into unknown waters, every other suppliers seems to not believe in their product. It's a typical business strategy: test the waters, don't overcommit. The problem is that Apple's "overcommitment" helped bring the price down.
- yuhong 16y ago
  "These companies generally have absolutely no understanding of the markets they're entering. It's what I call the Cargo Cult School of Product Management; " Yea, I mentioned the myth that a MBA can manage everything before.
shimi 16y ago
A year ago I had a gig for a big name prototyping an Android tablet. The message that was passed from other vendors was that Goggle were that they aren't looking into tablets. The project was cancelled. How wrong they were... When Android 1.0 was released a lot of vendors approached it with caution, 2 years down the road same story again...
FiddlerClamp 16y ago
The smaller names are already shipping - I got an Archos 70 and 101 this week (after weeks of delay for the 101, mind you). The Viewsonic G-Tab and Huawei Ideos are out there, too. I think that Honeycomb introduced a lot of uncertainty into requirements. When would it be ready and would the shipping product be able to support it? Would Gingerbread be sufficient?
nl 16y ago
Hey, that's what I said: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2215290 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2215290: Ever wonder why it's taken a year for anyone to build a 9"/10" iPad competitor? It's because no one can get capacitative touch screen in sufficient quantities. Even Samsung (which owns the factory!) had to make do with 7" screens. Now, finally new factories are beginning to come online, which means that competitors can release their products. The problem for them is that Apple locked in much lower prices (because of their bigger purchasing power), which makes it hard to compete on price.
mjfern 16y ago
> First, Apple has the tablet component market sewn up. An entrepreneur I talked to in China described the difficulty he still has buying touchscreens that are worth a darn. The real reason most of the current tablets are 7 inches? Because Apple bought up all of the 10-inch capacitive touchscreen stock and if they didn’t then they drove the price too high for smaller orders. There is no way to dabble in the market without paying a premium. Most people attribute Apple’s stunning financial performance to its differentiated products, which integrate excellent hardware, software, and content. If you dig deeper, however, you realize that other critical factors have played a substantial role in Apple’s financial performance over the last decade. One factor rarely discussed in detail, but that has significant impact on Apple’s success, is the way in which the company manages the critical forces within its industry. There are five key industry forces, according to Michael E. Porter, but here I just want to focus on one force: “the bargaining power of suppliers.” Let’s start with the iPod and iPhone. Most iPod’s except for the “Classic,” rely on flash memory -- instead of a hard drive -- for storage. The benefits of flash memory are reliability, form factor, and energy consumption. Realizing the significant benefits of flash memory for portable media devices, Apple formed long-term relationships with Samsung, Intel, and Micron, and by mid-2007 commanded about 25% of worldwide flash production. Fast forward to today, and we are seeing a similar scenario unfold for the iPad and the tablet market. It turns out that Apple has secured about 60% of global touch panel capacity, with a focus on 10-inch displays. As mentioned in the article, this has forced some competitors to initially focus on devices with 7-inch screens, such as Samsung with its Galaxy Tab. What’s the effect of commanding such a large portion of the worldwide supply of a key component for a product? First, because Apple is buying these components in such large quantities it can exercise significant leverage over suppliers. This leverage enables Apple to negotiate favorable terms and pricing. For instance, South Korean Fair Trade officials alleged that Apple struck a special deal with Samsung to obtain flash chips at below market rates. This favorable pricing means that Apple has a lower cost structure for its products relative to competing products. And all else equal, this lower cost structure results in higher margins for Apple versus a competitor. Second, when Apple commands such a large portion of the global market for a key component it creates enormous barriers to entry for potential competitors. Competitors can obtain the component in limited quantities but at a higher price, therefore placing the competitor at a cost disadvantage. Next, the competitor can launch a different product -- a hard drive based portable media device or a 7-inch touch screen tablet – that may not match the preferences of consumers. Alternatively, the competitor can just sit and wait until more supply of the component is made available, which in some cases takes years. In sum, Apple’s financial success as a company hinges in part on commercializing differentiated products. But this is just part of the story. As important to Apple’s success is the company’s strategy around managing key industry forces. As described above, Apple’s control over the worldwide market for key components has reduced Apple’s cost structure and has created significant barriers to entry for competitors. This yields significantly higher margins and market share for Apple, among other benefits.
guelo 16y ago
One problem is that Google is too tight-lipped about the Android roadmap even with its manufacturing partners. I know from working with one manufacturer how surprised they were with the pace of the Gingerbread and Honeycomb releases and how this has completely screwed up their schedule.
ReadyNSet 16y ago
Well didn't you look at Samsung? They did ship and what was the result..
navan 16y ago
There are many cheap 5" and 7" tablets. But very few 10" tablets. ViewSonic gTablet or viewpad10, Archos 101. They all have pretty good hardware with many of them with two cameras and comparable price with low end iPad. Processor manufacturers like nVidia gives them good frameworks to start with. In addition to several things mentioned in the comments, these tablets had problems like, 1. Almost all except Samsung Galaxy lacked direct use of Android market. 2. Some had software problems with bad out of box experience. (For example: http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/18/viewsonic-g-tablet-pulled-from-staples-stores-manufacturing-de/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/18/viewsonic-g-tablet-pulled...) 3. Regular apps built for Android phones did not give good experience on the tablets For the future tablets, waiting for Android 3.0 may not be a good reason. They always can release the hardware and then update the software later. HTC flyer is following this approach. There is a risk of users turning away if the first impressions are really bad. Announced prices for several of them are on the very expensive side. Among the announcements I also notice that very few come with wifi only option which is another reason for high price. I collect tablet information at tbltpc.com.
TGJ 16y ago
Wow, what's with the comments section in the article showing like 5 copies of each post?
epynonymous 16y ago
because nobody wants to re-create microsoft's mis-steps and it's clear that tablets are entering mobile territory.

128 points by solipsist 16y ago

dnsworks 16y ago

Just the title alone is funny coming from Techcrunch, "makers" of the "crunchpad".

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

muhfuhkuh 16y ago

Because it's really hard to make a market-reactive product that is more powerful and featureful than the preceding product it is catching up to clone. Apple just happened to have caught the entire planet with it's pants down when they introduced the i-Devices. I mean, look at what Google was working on[1] after Apple introduced the original iPhone. Google was chasing the market leader in style and interface at the time (Blackberry). When Apple introduced iPhone 3G, all bets were off and Google went back to the drawing board. iPod Touch is introduced, and the only real competitor that comes to the fore is Microsoft, with the Zune (RIP) brand that mimics the Touch to no end and barely does anything better (yes, I'm taking the soon-to-be-dead Zune Pass into account). Now it's tablets, and again, the rest of the industry reacts. I'm certainly surprised MS hasn't tried to hook up with a HW vendor to make a Phone 7 tablet. Apple is on a hot streak. First with seriously consumer-friendly smartphones, then with software and media ecosystems, now with disruptive computing platforms. It'll eventually run out of steam, but will the rest of the industry kill itself trying to keep up in the meantime? [1] http://news.cnet.com/2300-1037_3-6230132.html http://news.cnet.com/2300-1037_3-6230132.html

martythemaniak 16y ago
Beyond a superficial "touchable screen", most of Apple's tablet competitors have been heavily influenced WebOS - watch the PlayBook and TouchPad in action and you'll see navigation and multitasking are almost identical, as is the gestures used to control the device (swiping a card up to close the app). Meanwhile, the guy behind WebOS is the same guy behind Honeycomb, which also borrows the task manager and (don't know which came first) notifications.
- blinkingled 16y ago
  But it just isn't cool to say the tablet makers are copying webOS or have their own guts (Android notification system, while nothing like webOS is still distinct and lot better designed for example) - people just love being told that everything interesting in the universe is copied from Apple :)
  - sjs 16y ago
    Whether you like Apple or not they are the only ones shipping a decent tablet right now. I'm more excited about HP's webOS stuff than iPhone 5 or iPad 2.
    - blinkingled 16y ago
      True, but for me, the decent tablet Apple ships isn't nearly enough. I need Flash, decent multitasking, USB port, normal file system access and more so a standalone device not tied to my computer in any way shape or form. To that end Xoom is looking great and may be webOS will beat it in most key departments, but I can buy Xoom like next week.
      - sjs 16y ago
        webOS looks great. Summer will be here before you know it.
  - sambeau 16y ago
    Interesting, of course, that the multitasking UI was copied from the original iPhone Mobile Safari UI. :)
    - blinkingled 16y ago
      But of course original iPhone Mobile Safari never went anywhere near the word multitasking but that aside - correct me if I am mistaken but original iPhone Mobile Safari did not use a card system - i.e. you could not swipe up the Safari windows to dismiss them or anything which is the most innovative feature of the webOS multitasking. Just showing mini windows side by side that can be closed using a X button - that was done long time before iPhone.
checoivan 16y ago
Agree. It's harder than it seems. There's tons of things to consider with hardware related products. Imagine all the conditions: from software, to users, people with disabilities, hardware conditions, if it heats up, if the environment is too humid, too cold, if it gets dropped, and so on. This things take time. If a tablet pops up today it doesn't mean it was built in 3 months by a handfull of hackers and redbull, there's tons of work behind. Apple just happend to execute really, really well on it.
sudont 16y ago
This is marketing 101: create an original position, a USP. [1] What's going on now, is a bunch of suits and managers who want to ride on Jobs' coattails and build me-too products for a market they don't actually understand one bit. The fervor over subscriptions should be a key to these idiots that there is a strong market for an actually open device: instead they're taking the main competitor, an open source project even, and making it functionally more closed than iOS to an average user. Apple is hammering away at the middle-road consumer, and Google's OS is not only positioned as "me too, but also everything!", it's being filtered through handset manufacturers who have their own agendas, which run counter to what Android suggests to be. My suggestion? Google builds a durable tablet for academics and scientists to research in the field with. Because of Android's open nature, it would be trivial to open up an entire ecosystem of sensors and data loggers that would integrate. The best gift I ever got for my father was a kill-a-watt, there's a huge, untapped consumer market for data collection and processing. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positioning_(marketing)#Product_positioning_process http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positioning_(marketing)#Product...
- silvestrov 16y ago
  Because of Android's open nature, it would be trivial to open up an entire ecosystem of sensors and data loggers that would integrate I think it would be easy for Apple to match this: they can just add a USB host port to the iPad and allow apps to talk to connected devices. Almost everything today is USB-based. Apple just does a little step at a time instead of completely opening the barn door as the first step.
  - mlinsey 16y ago
    Agreed. I don't see why Apple would reject apps that connect to external sensors. There are already many such apps that use Bluetooth (eg Wakemate) or the headphone jack (eg Square), although getting approved to link up with the bottom port is supposedly a pain. If you want to take advantage of the closed nature of Apple's platform, you have to push the kind of apps they don't like. So far, that's mostly just home screen customizations and pirated games, I guess. Google Voice was looking like a killer app not-available-on-iOS but Apple backed off of that one.
greyman 16y ago
I am also surprised why MS at least doesn't talk about WP7 tablet. Nobody wants Win7 tablet with desktop software, so the only option left is that Win8 will natively support tablets, but then, what about apps?
- protomyth 16y ago
  I think WP7 has one big problem for apps, unlike iOS and Android, it doesn't do OpenGL ES. I think this is going to make it an issue to port.
- pixcavator 16y ago
  I have HP Slate. It's "Win7 tablet with desktop software" which is exactly what I wanted.
  - illumin8 16y ago
    That's great, it probably requires a stylus and gets less than 5 hours of battery life... go you.
    - pixcavator 16y ago
      It allows a stylus... probably!
- contextfree 16y ago
  After resetting Windows Mobile development they had their hands full just getting WP7 out on phones, and it's still missing features like a decent web browser which are already pretty bad on a phone but would be crippling on a tablet. It would probably take them another year to do a reasonable port, at which point it's not that far from the release of Windows 8 anyway.
GrandMasterBirt 16y ago
When apple announced the iPad, it was near completion. Thats why it shipped soon. There was no pre-ipad were gonna make it but wont ship it till 5 yrs later release. That is the benefit of being first.
gaius 16y ago
Windows XP Tablet Edition shipped in 2001.
mturmon 16y ago
Also, remember this good observation in the OP: "Apple has the tablet component market sewn up. An entrepreneur I talked to in China described the difficulty he still has buying touchscreens that are worth a darn. The real reason most of the current tablets are 7 inches? Because Apple bought up all of the 10-inch capacitive touchscreen stock and if they didn’t then they drove the price too high for smaller orders. There is no way to dabble in the market without paying a premium."

tghw 16y ago

Somewhat ironic commentary considering they were just as unable to ship the CrunchPad. And what did ship (the JooJoo) got completely panned in the reviews. Really the issue is that hardware is hard to get right and requires a lot of resources, resources that Apple has and many other companies do not.

taylorbuley 16y ago
Right on. Seems like polishing the prototype isn't the only hard part. Operations/supply/etc. are not trivial processes.
whakojacko 16y ago
"Really the issue is that hardware is hard to get right and requires a lot of resources, resources that Apple has and many other companies do not." More than just that, Apple also has the considerable advantage of owning almost all of their stack. They make their own chips to power their hardware which runs their OS which uses their applications and their infrastructure. Apple has aggressively taken control of the entire top to bottom stack (eg App Store reviews, acquiring PA Semi) like nobody else has been willing and/or able to.
- martythemaniak 16y ago
  Samsung makes their processor.
  - whakojacko 16y ago
    Samsung manufactures their processor. But the design of the A4 was done in-house by Apple. Edit: It does appear that Samsung helped design it, thanks for the correction HN :) I think my overall point still stands though
    - patrickaljord 16y ago
      A4 is just a customized version of the latest ARM.

ardit33 16y ago

From first hand experience, it takes up two years to ship a new product that is of a decent quality. Assuming a lot of the hardware OEM started working on a tablet device around second half of 2009 when the iPad rumors started, then the later half of 2011 is when the tablets will start shipping. It just not that simple as slaping few components together, put some software on top and you are done. My guess on the age of engaget, or "i build an web app in two weeks" posts, people expect that manufactures can come with great new devices overnight. Also when you are working with hardware you have to consider supply chain capacity, component quality, etc. Hardware is just a lot harder to build and harder to scale(and maybe thats why PG advocates startups to steer away from it as much as they can).

wmeredith 16y ago
That's fine and dandy, but quit showing mock-ups and talking about how great they are going to be and how they're going to change your life and all the other heavy breathing. Wait until it ships.
achompas 16y ago
Also when you are working with hardware you have to consider supply chain capacity, component quality, etc. You have to wonder how component supplies will be affected by Apple's orders. I hear they're responsible for 60% of all display orders right now [0], and they also have the famously secretive "component agreement" they announced during their last earnings call. It's possible that non-Apple product shipments will be delayed out to 2012 as a result. [0] http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/17/with_60_of_worlds_touch_panel_capacity_apple_squeezes_competitors.html http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/11/02/17/with_60_of_wor...

martythemaniak 16y ago

Why can't the blogoechochamber just fucking relax? It's been less than a year since the iPad launched, tablets haven't made it to most people's radars yet and the market will play out over the next 5-10 years. In the grand scheme of things, who actually cares whether the Xoom ships on Feb 17 or gets "delayed" to Feb 22, or that RIM announced March availability for the PlayBook and will instead ship it in April?

neworbit 16y ago
Oh gawd yes. There seems to be some conception that Apple has nailed it with the iPad and competition is impossible. Gang, the devices we're going to be able to get in three years will make today's iPad look as useful as a brushed-metal frisbee. There's a lot of innovation left to come.
- rimantas 16y ago
  iPhone was announced four years ago. In that time a lot of innovation had to come. Well, we got iPad, from Apple…
  - neworbit 16y ago
    LOL I like it. But in all seriousness the Android phones we have today are way better than our choices from back in that era, even the ones running dated 2.1 OS... curse you AT&T! Blackberry REALLY changed mobile phones. Then a lot of catchup. Apple did it again. Then a lot of catchup. I don't expect the story stops here...
    - mryall 16y ago
      The phones are better, yes, since the iPhone. But I think in more of an incremental way rather than an revolutionary, innovative way.
      - dasil003 16y ago
        I never had a Blackberry, but really? The things I do with my Nexus One are amazing. The Google Maps/GPS, podcasts with Doggcatcher, and the general Gmail / Contacts / Facebook / Twitter integration is amazing. I imagine Blackberry as being good for texting and email, but not really a drop in the bucket in terms of the larger lifestyle stuff.

mburns 16y ago

The problem of designing and manufacturing a new product is harder than you think.

tesseract 16y ago
The problem of sourcing components and getting them delivered in a timely fashion is harder than you think. Especially on the heels of a global recession that caused suppliers to cut back on their manufacturing output.

sambeau 16y ago

I suspect this has something to do with it, too: "Apple secures 60% of global touch panel capacity, causing tight supply" http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110216PD219.html http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20110216PD219.html

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

jasongullickson 16y ago

What are you waiting for? http://www.apple.com/ipad/ http://www.apple.com/ipad/ Seriously though, what is so compelling about the non-shipping tablets that makes them worth waiting for (or complaining about) than what Apple is already shipping? Aside from the arguments that don't impact most consumers (jailbreaking, etc.) could it be that it's just not in the cards at the moment to come out with a device that competes with the iPad (price, performance, whatever, pick your metric)?

tomjen3 16y ago
I want a tablet with flash that I can also use as an USB drive. Neither of those things are stuff that doesn't impact consumers.
- rayiner 16y ago
  You want to use a $500 tablet as a $20 flash drive? And carry a USB cable that'll take up more space in aforementioned $20 flash drive? That is really one of the problems with Apples' competitors - they just don't get the use cases.
  - T-hawk 16y ago
    I think the parent meant Adobe Flash.
    - rayiner 16y ago
      Fair point, but using it as a USB drive? To what end?
      - guelo 16y ago
        The idea is to be able to move music and movies on and off the device without having to go through iTunes and the nightmare of "syncing" to only one computer at a time.
      - 16y ago

thought_alarm 16y ago

iOS is merely an iteration of a platform that's been under development for over 20 years. It took Microsoft over 10 years to create a consumer-friendly version of Windows NT, and almost another 10 years to deliver an acceptable followup. Software is hard. Consumer software much harder. Platforms take years and years to develop and mature.

Bitmobrich 16y ago

So when is the CrunchPad being shipped?

cletus 16y ago

There are several reasons: 1. It takes time to develop the supply chain, product design and so forth; 2. Apple completely caught the industry with its pants down, creating a market where previously there was none where the consensus seemed to be that tablets were niche products; 3. Apple's competitors are constantly chasing last year's Apple product. It's why it's a huge mistake (IMHO) for competitors to draw attention to the iPad: at some point very shortly there will be a newer better iPad and suddenly they won't want to make those comparisons anymore (at least not for awhile); 4. These companies generally have absolutely no understanding of the markets they're entering. It's what I call the Cargo Cult School of Product Management; and 5. Whereas Apple went all-in with the iPad into unknown waters, every other suppliers seems to not believe in their product. It's a typical business strategy: test the waters, don't overcommit. The problem is that Apple's "overcommitment" helped bring the price down.

yuhong 16y ago
"These companies generally have absolutely no understanding of the markets they're entering. It's what I call the Cargo Cult School of Product Management; " Yea, I mentioned the myth that a MBA can manage everything before.

shimi 16y ago

A year ago I had a gig for a big name prototyping an Android tablet. The message that was passed from other vendors was that Goggle were that they aren't looking into tablets. The project was cancelled. How wrong they were... When Android 1.0 was released a lot of vendors approached it with caution, 2 years down the road same story again...

FiddlerClamp 16y ago

The smaller names are already shipping - I got an Archos 70 and 101 this week (after weeks of delay for the 101, mind you). The Viewsonic G-Tab and Huawei Ideos are out there, too. I think that Honeycomb introduced a lot of uncertainty into requirements. When would it be ready and would the shipping product be able to support it? Would Gingerbread be sufficient?

nl 16y ago

Hey, that's what I said: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2215290 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2215290: Ever wonder why it's taken a year for anyone to build a 9"/10" iPad competitor? It's because no one can get capacitative touch screen in sufficient quantities. Even Samsung (which owns the factory!) had to make do with 7" screens. Now, finally new factories are beginning to come online, which means that competitors can release their products. The problem for them is that Apple locked in much lower prices (because of their bigger purchasing power), which makes it hard to compete on price.

mjfern 16y ago

> First, Apple has the tablet component market sewn up. An entrepreneur I talked to in China described the difficulty he still has buying touchscreens that are worth a darn. The real reason most of the current tablets are 7 inches? Because Apple bought up all of the 10-inch capacitive touchscreen stock and if they didn’t then they drove the price too high for smaller orders. There is no way to dabble in the market without paying a premium. Most people attribute Apple’s stunning financial performance to its differentiated products, which integrate excellent hardware, software, and content. If you dig deeper, however, you realize that other critical factors have played a substantial role in Apple’s financial performance over the last decade. One factor rarely discussed in detail, but that has significant impact on Apple’s success, is the way in which the company manages the critical forces within its industry. There are five key industry forces, according to Michael E. Porter, but here I just want to focus on one force: “the bargaining power of suppliers.” Let’s start with the iPod and iPhone. Most iPod’s except for the “Classic,” rely on flash memory -- instead of a hard drive -- for storage. The benefits of flash memory are reliability, form factor, and energy consumption. Realizing the significant benefits of flash memory for portable media devices, Apple formed long-term relationships with Samsung, Intel, and Micron, and by mid-2007 commanded about 25% of worldwide flash production. Fast forward to today, and we are seeing a similar scenario unfold for the iPad and the tablet market. It turns out that Apple has secured about 60% of global touch panel capacity, with a focus on 10-inch displays. As mentioned in the article, this has forced some competitors to initially focus on devices with 7-inch screens, such as Samsung with its Galaxy Tab. What’s the effect of commanding such a large portion of the worldwide supply of a key component for a product? First, because Apple is buying these components in such large quantities it can exercise significant leverage over suppliers. This leverage enables Apple to negotiate favorable terms and pricing. For instance, South Korean Fair Trade officials alleged that Apple struck a special deal with Samsung to obtain flash chips at below market rates. This favorable pricing means that Apple has a lower cost structure for its products relative to competing products. And all else equal, this lower cost structure results in higher margins for Apple versus a competitor. Second, when Apple commands such a large portion of the global market for a key component it creates enormous barriers to entry for potential competitors. Competitors can obtain the component in limited quantities but at a higher price, therefore placing the competitor at a cost disadvantage. Next, the competitor can launch a different product -- a hard drive based portable media device or a 7-inch touch screen tablet – that may not match the preferences of consumers. Alternatively, the competitor can just sit and wait until more supply of the component is made available, which in some cases takes years. In sum, Apple’s financial success as a company hinges in part on commercializing differentiated products. But this is just part of the story. As important to Apple’s success is the company’s strategy around managing key industry forces. As described above, Apple’s control over the worldwide market for key components has reduced Apple’s cost structure and has created significant barriers to entry for competitors. This yields significantly higher margins and market share for Apple, among other benefits.

guelo 16y ago

One problem is that Google is too tight-lipped about the Android roadmap even with its manufacturing partners. I know from working with one manufacturer how surprised they were with the pace of the Gingerbread and Honeycomb releases and how this has completely screwed up their schedule.

ReadyNSet 16y ago

Well didn't you look at Samsung? They did ship and what was the result..

navan 16y ago

There are many cheap 5" and 7" tablets. But very few 10" tablets. ViewSonic gTablet or viewpad10, Archos 101. They all have pretty good hardware with many of them with two cameras and comparable price with low end iPad. Processor manufacturers like nVidia gives them good frameworks to start with. In addition to several things mentioned in the comments, these tablets had problems like, 1. Almost all except Samsung Galaxy lacked direct use of Android market. 2. Some had software problems with bad out of box experience. (For example: http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/18/viewsonic-g-tablet-pulled-from-staples-stores-manufacturing-de/ http://www.engadget.com/2010/12/18/viewsonic-g-tablet-pulled...) 3. Regular apps built for Android phones did not give good experience on the tablets For the future tablets, waiting for Android 3.0 may not be a good reason. They always can release the hardware and then update the software later. HTC flyer is following this approach. There is a risk of users turning away if the first impressions are really bad. Announced prices for several of them are on the very expensive side. Among the announcements I also notice that very few come with wifi only option which is another reason for high price. I collect tablet information at tbltpc.com.

TGJ 16y ago

Wow, what's with the comments section in the article showing like 5 copies of each post?

epynonymous 16y ago

because nobody wants to re-create microsoft's mis-steps and it's clear that tablets are entering mobile territory.