7 ms·

I would fall into the category of kids who did not do well with this. I was moved a double-digit number of times when I was in single digits of age. Eventuall

I would fall into the category of kids who did not do well with this. I was moved a double-digit number of times when I was in single digits of age. Eventually, my parents thought to take me to a psychologist to solve the puzzling issue of why I wasn't making friends. The notes I requested from the psychologist decades later included a line from me that went something to the effect of that I didn't get to enjoy having friends, I just got to miss them. I absolutely missed some social developmental windows, somewhat like the kittens who, never exposed to horizontal lines during a critical point in the Blakemore and Cooper experiment, were unable to perceive them later on. Nothing I have been able to do in terms of reading, groups, exercises, and the like has been able to grant me the easy camaraderie that comes readily to others. Instead I am typically watchful and quiet, on the periphery of any group. Carnegie, Toastmasters, and all of the glad-handing can provide at best a kind of thin simulation that never takes root for me. I have faked it and been unable to make it, leaving me with a somewhat guilty fear that any charm I may have would be greasily like that of any garden variety psychopath. Perhaps the most "positive" thing to come out of it would be near-schizoid levels of self-reliance and an ability to acquire local accents to better fit in. Some kids get over it, some ... do not.

nck4222 7y ago
>something to the effect of that I didn't get to enjoy having friends, I just got to miss them. >I am typically watchful and quiet, on the periphery of any group. >I have faked it and been unable to make it I know other people who moved several times as kids, and these are very common sentiments among them (and many other people as well, who didn't move). I don't have much else to say, other than you're not alone and I hope you find peace with this.
- heartbeats 7y ago
  Why would you find peace with being stunted and missing out on major parts of life? To be blunt, it doesn't sound like something to be enthusiastic about.
  - kossae 7y ago
    Because the alternative is living your life in misery due to your past, constantly dwelling on something you can't change. People can overcome things to the best of their abilities, and it's normally good advice to at least try.
    - bsanr2 7y ago
      Some of us are stubborn enough that this is the answer. Curse the universe that afflicted me with this, and if I must suffer it, let others know, viscerally, how debilitating it is. Maybe I can be the horrible warning that sparks change. I may be miserable, but it's misery with purpose.
    - bsanr2 7y ago
      I think it would be interesting to note how many of you find this an objectionable mindset because of its self-destructiveness, compared to how many of you find it objectionable because you simply cannot stand to be reminded of the wretchedness this world is capable of. It's the difference between volunteering at a soup kitchen, and recommending the installation of those anti-homeless spikes at your building entrance.
  - mstromb 7y ago
    Would being angry about it make anything better? Could it restore the missing parts, or go back in time and un-stunt a person? Being at peace with something is not the same thing as being happy about it.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    Part of life is shit. Don’t spend the the good parts of life bathing in it.
  - antepodius 7y ago
    So what's the best response? Endless rage? Suicide?
  - zzzzzzzza 7y ago
    life has a lot of parts, major is in the eye of the beholder
- Schwolop 7y ago
  > I don't have much else to say, other than you're not alone and I hope you find peace with this. Thank you for saying it. The frequency with which I see positive expressions of humanity on HN is a big part of what makes this place special.
3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
Similar experience: a different elementary school for each grade. It's hard to exactly describe the impact it's had on me, but let's just say I have no problem letting go of friendships. I was an introvert all throughout school, making only a handful of friends. Things finally changed for me in college, joining a campus youth group which functioned more like a spiritual fraternity. I was able to finally create life-long bonds with people. Weirdest of all was I actually became an extrovert! Now I have very little problems making friends. Generally I can chat up strangers. I do have to work very hard to maintain friendships, but it's something I work very hard at.
- throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
  That’s interesting. I switched ~4 times in the first 5 grades. I’ve never really considered whether it affected me much, but have been highly self aware that I don’t really care about letting go of people. I have a vivid memory of yearbook signing in high school, and just getting tired of it, and when people wanted me to write a personalized message, I just said... eh, and declined to do so. I wouldn’t have thought this was disruptive, but I also recall manually learning how social behaviors work in 11-12th grade and had always assumed I was just a bit of an aspie
  - 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
    > I don’t really care about letting go of people. This really does seem like a common thread among us who were uprooted and move around during elementary and middle school.
    - pram 7y ago
      Having had the same rootless upbringing and these same kinds of feelings, I think the word that comes closest to describing what happened to us is dehumanization. Yes I can sever relationships very easily, and I will never truly miss them. I might think about them, but I will never make an effort to reach out or reestablish the relationship under any circumstance. Normal people suffer through these things and never sever. They also miss individuals who have left their life. Those are normal human feelings. We don’t have them. We can’t fake them. It’s tragic.
spython 7y ago
I would suggest looking into Pesso-Boyden Therapy, which deals with such "holes in roles" - the missing experiences at the right age with the right person - by creating synthetic memories. It's quite an intense thing when a person suddenly gets exactly the experience they were missing for years, just by giving people, in a therapeutic setting, roles to act out.
- heartbeats 7y ago
  That sounds extremely icky, to say the least. "Synthetic memories"?
  - spython 7y ago
    It does sound weird, and it was a thing I was cautious about when first reading about Pesso therapy. But the "synthetic memories" in no way replace your true memories just as someone who you ask to - in the therapeutic setting - take on the role of an "ideal parent" or "ideal partner" does not replace your real parent or partner. Instead, what you get is a real world experience of how the things could have played out differently, and this experience releases some tension that continued to influence your later interactions.. As an example - if a person was bullied in school, and has subsequently built up impenetrable walls in relationships, it could be helpful to re-enact an act of bullying in a safe setting. Only this time, the person is fully in control and can create an alternative ending - e.g. by letting an 'ideal friend' or an 'ideal parent' join in and stop the bullying. Now a synthetic memory is created - sure, it does not replace the old memory. But now you've got to experience that there are different outcomes possible, now you feel more protected. The power of this method lies exactly in the experiencing. Before being exposed to this approach I thought my problems would go away, if only I could really really understand them. Now I see that experiences can be quite a bit more powerful than words and concepts. I can also see where all the rituals in human cultures are coming from.
    - heartbeats 7y ago
      Yeah but still - that is not a thing which actually happened. It is just systematic self-delusion, and an altogether pitiful approach. "I am not happy with the way things turned out so I will pretend they did in fact not turn out that way."
mattrp 7y ago
Thank you for writing this. I was the outsider kid who didn’t move on when all of his friends did. My friends were all military brats. Years later I reconnected with one and he didn’t even remember the two years between 8-10 we were inseparable. If there is a flip side, I have family members that can make friends with a brick wall and they are an open book to everyone they meet - charlatans included and they constantly wonder why they are being taken advantage of.
otakucode 7y ago
That idea of a critical period we're unaware even exists scares me. We know of several critical periods, like an infant with their eyes covered for the first two months of their life will never master binocular vision, a child born deaf can be given normal hearing with a cochlear implant if placed before or around age 2 with effectiveness falling off the later it is implanted, etc. What if there IS a critical period for learning how to develop deep and meaningful personal relationships? Everything about modern child life is designed to pervert and destroy any ability for a child to form such relationships. I have similar concerns about autonomy. Autonomy is a very strong need in all animals, so it would only make sense for this to be true of humans as well and we see plenty of indication of it throughout history and into modern times... but we continue to subject young people to almost total suspension of their autonomy during all of their formative years. What impact should we expect that to have on the kids later in life? The disturbing thing about critical periods is that even knowing you've missed one doesn't help, you just missed it and the most you can do is compensate.
david-gpu 7y ago
This resonates a lot with me. Were you bullied as well? Perhaps the worst part of constantly being uprooted was that as the new kid in class you are a natural soft target for bullies. It lead to the vicious cycle of: I'm new and afraid of my new peers, so I'm on my own most of the time, so I'm an easy target for bullies, so they go after me, so I become more withdrawn. It was relentless and it has made me very anxious of social settings with new people. You eventually learn to fake it, but the emotional scarring remains.
throwaway1160 7y ago
Had to make an account just to comment on this: When I read your post it felt like you were describing me! You're certainly not alone in this. I've long thought that instability of this sort in your early years makes it more difficult to form lasting bonds with people, but on the flipside it also makes you so much more independent. So great to see someone mirror that thought! The psychopath thing has bothered me as long as I can remember - obviously I can't be one, as I do have compassion for others, but the outward behavior still feels like I'm "playing a role".
eq_sd_ 7y ago
I only moved once, after my parents got divorced. I changed schools in 4th grade and didn't end up having any "best" (they weren't actually good to me) friends again until 8th grade. I remember almost nothing about middle school, especially 7th grade. This week in therapy I was asked if my parents ever played with me or took an interest in anything I was doing...I realized they didn't. I'm so used to be being alone that I never considered this and I think it sucks more than the lack of friends. My parents were so emotionally unavailable they didn't notice any problems, not even when I became severely depressed in high school. It took more than 8 years for me to finally have a breakdown, 8 years for my mom to finally realize I needed help. I've been diagnosed with Schizoid Personality Disorder. It's uncomfortable knowing I fit in so well I'm basically invisible and when I'm not, it's more often that I'm being judged for having flat affect which I think is only exacerbated by being female. I don't know what emotions I'm not showing, I don't know any other way.

nck4222 7y ago

>something to the effect of that I didn't get to enjoy having friends, I just got to miss them. >I am typically watchful and quiet, on the periphery of any group. >I have faked it and been unable to make it I know other people who moved several times as kids, and these are very common sentiments among them (and many other people as well, who didn't move). I don't have much else to say, other than you're not alone and I hope you find peace with this.

heartbeats 7y ago
Why would you find peace with being stunted and missing out on major parts of life? To be blunt, it doesn't sound like something to be enthusiastic about.
- kossae 7y ago
  Because the alternative is living your life in misery due to your past, constantly dwelling on something you can't change. People can overcome things to the best of their abilities, and it's normally good advice to at least try.
  - bsanr2 7y ago
    Some of us are stubborn enough that this is the answer. Curse the universe that afflicted me with this, and if I must suffer it, let others know, viscerally, how debilitating it is. Maybe I can be the horrible warning that sparks change. I may be miserable, but it's misery with purpose.
  - bsanr2 7y ago
    I think it would be interesting to note how many of you find this an objectionable mindset because of its self-destructiveness, compared to how many of you find it objectionable because you simply cannot stand to be reminded of the wretchedness this world is capable of. It's the difference between volunteering at a soup kitchen, and recommending the installation of those anti-homeless spikes at your building entrance.
- mstromb 7y ago
  Would being angry about it make anything better? Could it restore the missing parts, or go back in time and un-stunt a person? Being at peace with something is not the same thing as being happy about it.
- kortilla 7y ago
  Part of life is shit. Don’t spend the the good parts of life bathing in it.
- antepodius 7y ago
  So what's the best response? Endless rage? Suicide?
- zzzzzzzza 7y ago
  life has a lot of parts, major is in the eye of the beholder
Schwolop 7y ago
> I don't have much else to say, other than you're not alone and I hope you find peace with this. Thank you for saying it. The frequency with which I see positive expressions of humanity on HN is a big part of what makes this place special.

3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago

Similar experience: a different elementary school for each grade. It's hard to exactly describe the impact it's had on me, but let's just say I have no problem letting go of friendships. I was an introvert all throughout school, making only a handful of friends. Things finally changed for me in college, joining a campus youth group which functioned more like a spiritual fraternity. I was able to finally create life-long bonds with people. Weirdest of all was I actually became an extrovert! Now I have very little problems making friends. Generally I can chat up strangers. I do have to work very hard to maintain friendships, but it's something I work very hard at.

throwawayhhakdl 7y ago
That’s interesting. I switched ~4 times in the first 5 grades. I’ve never really considered whether it affected me much, but have been highly self aware that I don’t really care about letting go of people. I have a vivid memory of yearbook signing in high school, and just getting tired of it, and when people wanted me to write a personalized message, I just said... eh, and declined to do so. I wouldn’t have thought this was disruptive, but I also recall manually learning how social behaviors work in 11-12th grade and had always assumed I was just a bit of an aspie
- 3fe9a03ccd14ca5 7y ago
  > I don’t really care about letting go of people. This really does seem like a common thread among us who were uprooted and move around during elementary and middle school.
  - pram 7y ago
    Having had the same rootless upbringing and these same kinds of feelings, I think the word that comes closest to describing what happened to us is dehumanization. Yes I can sever relationships very easily, and I will never truly miss them. I might think about them, but I will never make an effort to reach out or reestablish the relationship under any circumstance. Normal people suffer through these things and never sever. They also miss individuals who have left their life. Those are normal human feelings. We don’t have them. We can’t fake them. It’s tragic.

spython 7y ago

I would suggest looking into Pesso-Boyden Therapy, which deals with such "holes in roles" - the missing experiences at the right age with the right person - by creating synthetic memories. It's quite an intense thing when a person suddenly gets exactly the experience they were missing for years, just by giving people, in a therapeutic setting, roles to act out.

heartbeats 7y ago
That sounds extremely icky, to say the least. "Synthetic memories"?
- spython 7y ago
  It does sound weird, and it was a thing I was cautious about when first reading about Pesso therapy. But the "synthetic memories" in no way replace your true memories just as someone who you ask to - in the therapeutic setting - take on the role of an "ideal parent" or "ideal partner" does not replace your real parent or partner. Instead, what you get is a real world experience of how the things could have played out differently, and this experience releases some tension that continued to influence your later interactions.. As an example - if a person was bullied in school, and has subsequently built up impenetrable walls in relationships, it could be helpful to re-enact an act of bullying in a safe setting. Only this time, the person is fully in control and can create an alternative ending - e.g. by letting an 'ideal friend' or an 'ideal parent' join in and stop the bullying. Now a synthetic memory is created - sure, it does not replace the old memory. But now you've got to experience that there are different outcomes possible, now you feel more protected. The power of this method lies exactly in the experiencing. Before being exposed to this approach I thought my problems would go away, if only I could really really understand them. Now I see that experiences can be quite a bit more powerful than words and concepts. I can also see where all the rituals in human cultures are coming from.
  - heartbeats 7y ago
    Yeah but still - that is not a thing which actually happened. It is just systematic self-delusion, and an altogether pitiful approach. "I am not happy with the way things turned out so I will pretend they did in fact not turn out that way."

mattrp 7y ago

Thank you for writing this. I was the outsider kid who didn’t move on when all of his friends did. My friends were all military brats. Years later I reconnected with one and he didn’t even remember the two years between 8-10 we were inseparable. If there is a flip side, I have family members that can make friends with a brick wall and they are an open book to everyone they meet - charlatans included and they constantly wonder why they are being taken advantage of.

otakucode 7y ago

That idea of a critical period we're unaware even exists scares me. We know of several critical periods, like an infant with their eyes covered for the first two months of their life will never master binocular vision, a child born deaf can be given normal hearing with a cochlear implant if placed before or around age 2 with effectiveness falling off the later it is implanted, etc. What if there IS a critical period for learning how to develop deep and meaningful personal relationships? Everything about modern child life is designed to pervert and destroy any ability for a child to form such relationships. I have similar concerns about autonomy. Autonomy is a very strong need in all animals, so it would only make sense for this to be true of humans as well and we see plenty of indication of it throughout history and into modern times... but we continue to subject young people to almost total suspension of their autonomy during all of their formative years. What impact should we expect that to have on the kids later in life? The disturbing thing about critical periods is that even knowing you've missed one doesn't help, you just missed it and the most you can do is compensate.

david-gpu 7y ago

This resonates a lot with me. Were you bullied as well? Perhaps the worst part of constantly being uprooted was that as the new kid in class you are a natural soft target for bullies. It lead to the vicious cycle of: I'm new and afraid of my new peers, so I'm on my own most of the time, so I'm an easy target for bullies, so they go after me, so I become more withdrawn. It was relentless and it has made me very anxious of social settings with new people. You eventually learn to fake it, but the emotional scarring remains.

throwaway1160 7y ago

Had to make an account just to comment on this: When I read your post it felt like you were describing me! You're certainly not alone in this. I've long thought that instability of this sort in your early years makes it more difficult to form lasting bonds with people, but on the flipside it also makes you so much more independent. So great to see someone mirror that thought! The psychopath thing has bothered me as long as I can remember - obviously I can't be one, as I do have compassion for others, but the outward behavior still feels like I'm "playing a role".

eq_sd_ 7y ago

I only moved once, after my parents got divorced. I changed schools in 4th grade and didn't end up having any "best" (they weren't actually good to me) friends again until 8th grade. I remember almost nothing about middle school, especially 7th grade. This week in therapy I was asked if my parents ever played with me or took an interest in anything I was doing...I realized they didn't. I'm so used to be being alone that I never considered this and I think it sucks more than the lack of friends. My parents were so emotionally unavailable they didn't notice any problems, not even when I became severely depressed in high school. It took more than 8 years for me to finally have a breakdown, 8 years for my mom to finally realize I needed help. I've been diagnosed with Schizoid Personality Disorder. It's uncomfortable knowing I fit in so well I'm basically invisible and when I'm not, it's more often that I'm being judged for having flat affect which I think is only exacerbated by being female. I don't know what emotions I'm not showing, I don't know any other way.