6 ms·

I've never had an issue with any of those things. Maybe people should move away from the valley into the rest of the country where the jobs are more humane

skrebbel 7y ago
Better yet, there are entire continents with more humane jobs than most in "the country".
sp332 7y ago
You could still use your leverage to help other people get those things. Solidarity and all that.
- derision 7y ago
  My point is people can get those things by moving away from the "cool" startups and work for the vast majority of other companies that already treat tech workers incredibly well. Compared to my peers outside of tech, I've always had better benefits and better working conditions than them. People need to realize that many of the "issues" they perceive with the industry are limited to certain coastal areas. It's the same with the "women in tech" issue. In every position I've held (I live in Cleveland, OH for reference) there's always been a balanced representation of developers from both genders.
CaptArmchair 7y ago
You get downvoted, but you actually have a point. The problem with GP's statement isn't "unionization". It's "tech workers". What does that even mean? It's such a general term that can be applied to vast swathes of the workforce. Is someone who maintains complex VB scripted excel sheets a tech worker, for instance? Or is that label only reserved for those who work at a FAANG company? Many who have a so-called "technical" or "digital" role do so in industries whose main primary focus isn't producing digital software or services. Banks, Automotive, Health, Education, Food, Retail, Mining, Construction, Transport, Tourism,... And many of those industries do have long traditions of unionization and defending laborer rights. Many of those workers are already organized and do have many provisions for a sane workplace culture provided by their employers. Because the latter already went through the pain of worker conflicts. The trouble with the "Valley" is that it originates in that wild idea of bootstrapping your own company from your garage or kitchen table, taking the same mythical roads pioneers of computing took some 40 years ago. While many found unprecedented freedom in being able to bootstrap or work for a fledgling company, doing so was - and still is - a very risky proposition. You will work outrageous amounts of time without knowing if you ever will be able to cash out. You have to be okay with that. Today's FAANG companies originate from that narrative, and VC capital backed start up culture heavily projects that narrative. But Silicon Valley isn't a small community of computing enthousiast anymore. The Wild West doesn't exist anymore. It's a particular industry in it's own right and most sizable companies compare to well-established corporations who are just like any other traditional corporation. Yet, somehow, everyone still perceives these companies as pioneers and give them a free pass as to the ethical choices they make in how they treat the users of their products, and the workers who make those products. Breaking off from this tangent about Valley corporatism, it should be clear that the plight of workers in that setting isn't really comparable to all workers in other industries and fields that may provide better working conditions. Just recently, someone argued to me that working on "boring" technology is what gives you the most job stability (which isn't the same as security!). Like, doing Perl or Cobol for social security institutions, banks, transport, etc. With age, I've come to find that this person is likely right.

skrebbel 7y ago

Better yet, there are entire continents with more humane jobs than most in "the country".

sp332 7y ago

You could still use your leverage to help other people get those things. Solidarity and all that.

derision 7y ago
My point is people can get those things by moving away from the "cool" startups and work for the vast majority of other companies that already treat tech workers incredibly well. Compared to my peers outside of tech, I've always had better benefits and better working conditions than them. People need to realize that many of the "issues" they perceive with the industry are limited to certain coastal areas. It's the same with the "women in tech" issue. In every position I've held (I live in Cleveland, OH for reference) there's always been a balanced representation of developers from both genders.

CaptArmchair 7y ago

You get downvoted, but you actually have a point. The problem with GP's statement isn't "unionization". It's "tech workers". What does that even mean? It's such a general term that can be applied to vast swathes of the workforce. Is someone who maintains complex VB scripted excel sheets a tech worker, for instance? Or is that label only reserved for those who work at a FAANG company? Many who have a so-called "technical" or "digital" role do so in industries whose main primary focus isn't producing digital software or services. Banks, Automotive, Health, Education, Food, Retail, Mining, Construction, Transport, Tourism,... And many of those industries do have long traditions of unionization and defending laborer rights. Many of those workers are already organized and do have many provisions for a sane workplace culture provided by their employers. Because the latter already went through the pain of worker conflicts. The trouble with the "Valley" is that it originates in that wild idea of bootstrapping your own company from your garage or kitchen table, taking the same mythical roads pioneers of computing took some 40 years ago. While many found unprecedented freedom in being able to bootstrap or work for a fledgling company, doing so was - and still is - a very risky proposition. You will work outrageous amounts of time without knowing if you ever will be able to cash out. You have to be okay with that. Today's FAANG companies originate from that narrative, and VC capital backed start up culture heavily projects that narrative. But Silicon Valley isn't a small community of computing enthousiast anymore. The Wild West doesn't exist anymore. It's a particular industry in it's own right and most sizable companies compare to well-established corporations who are just like any other traditional corporation. Yet, somehow, everyone still perceives these companies as pioneers and give them a free pass as to the ethical choices they make in how they treat the users of their products, and the workers who make those products. Breaking off from this tangent about Valley corporatism, it should be clear that the plight of workers in that setting isn't really comparable to all workers in other industries and fields that may provide better working conditions. Just recently, someone argued to me that working on "boring" technology is what gives you the most job stability (which isn't the same as security!). Like, doing Perl or Cobol for social security institutions, banks, transport, etc. With age, I've come to find that this person is likely right.