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"But there is also a dark side to the social world of middle school, as anyone who has been through it will remember. Sixth graders who do not have friends are

"But there is also a dark side to the social world of middle school, as anyone who has been through it will remember. Sixth graders who do not have friends are at risk of anxiety, depression, and low self-esteem. About 12 percent of the 6,000 sixth graders in Juvonen’s study were not named as a friend by anyone else. They had no one to sit with at lunch and no one to stick up for them when bullied." Very relate-able, unfortunately. In many ways, it set the tone for my life.

reaperducer 7y ago
This is going to be perhaps the least popular comment I've ever made on HN, but I will relate to you the advice my parents gave me when I was a socially awkward, introverted, bullied middle-schooler: Dad: Suck it up. Mom: Get over it. Being bullied in school doesn't mean you have to be bullied for life. As a kid, things can be stacked against you. You're surrounded by people who are older, stronger, more powerful, and more capable than you. But you don't have to be bullied as an adult if you don't allow it to happen. Adulthood is a much more even playing field than childhood. You have resources (HR department, change jobs, change neighborhoods, police, social services, lawyers, etc...) I know there are people who as adults are bullied. I know some of them. But in every case I've seen they've allowed a history of bullying to make them believe that they are powerless to change their circumstances. They're not. They choose to remain in that position because it's familiar, and change and confrontation are scary. But sometimes you've got to suck it up, act like an adult, and do adult things. And that sometimes means standing up for yourself.
- curyous 7y ago
  Sometimes as an adult you need to suck it up and provide for your family, working in a small industry, at a small business, getting bullied at work every day because unless you retrain, there are no their options.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    You are correct. I've been there. But these circumstances don't last forever. Life is constantly changing. Sometimes you can make the change. Sometimes you just have to wait.
  - downerending 7y ago
    I've been in a similar situation, and it does truly suck. Things can be changed, but it can take quite a while and be rather painful. One thing that's helped me some is the realization that I can simply walk away from almost anything. Kids are the primary exception, and I think as a parent or guardian, you have a deep duty to suffer whatever you must to try to give them a good start in life.
- fullshark 7y ago
  Doesn't "suck it up" mean to bear it and ignore it? That seems at odds with the rest of your post's advice which is to stand up for yourself.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    No, suck it up means find a way to cope, which can mean suffer through it or make changes.
    - tapland 7y ago
      No. Sucking it up is acceptance of the situation, the very opposite to making changes
- compiler-guy 7y ago
  The article explains the danger of this approach, with reasonable science. It seems to have worked in your case but is more risky than other strategies.
  - kbutler 7y ago
    I didn't see that in the article. Maybe we're interpreting it differently? It is critical for adolescents to learn to deal with hard things and to approach problems in positive ways. Love the martial arts training ididntdothis mentioned - increase the child's ability and confidence, then even without using the martial skills, the bullying stopped.
- Ididntdothis 7y ago
  For me bullying stopped when I started martial arts. I still wasn’t popular but people knew they shouldn’t mess with me (I never had to fight but the bullies knew I could) and left me alone. If I had kids I would definitely try to get them into jiu Jitsu class or similar. This physical confidence still carries me until today even in professional circumstances.
  - downerending 7y ago
    I think this is good advice, though it never would have occurred to my parents (or me). Emotional bullying is a different problem. If I could advise my younger self, it'd be that when the line is crossed, you have to lay down the law: This stops, or I'm out of here. And put on your adult hat and follow through.
  - aguyfromnb 7y ago
    >For me bullying stopped when I started martial arts. This is so true. At the end of the day, we are primal animals, and knowing that you can physically dominate (or can be physically dominated) has a huge influence in personal conflict. Not only that, martial arts are great exercise, which is one less thing you can be bullied about. It's obviously not a bullying "cure-all", but it helps.
  - sunstone 7y ago
    For me it was judo. You can't really hurt others but they can't hurt you either.
- admiral33 7y ago
  Learning to stand up for yourself is more than "Suck it up". I think your comment is in good faith, because sucking it up is the correct response... for someone that is able to do it. But before then a change of mindset is required, and that can be a large undertaking for some people. What that helped me: - Fitness (starting with simple yoga to learn appreciation for my body, then progressing with weights) - Stoicism, Letters from a Stoic Seneca, Meditations Marcus Aurelius - Committing to memory basic social skills and nuances, The Charisma Myth - Hypnosis and self affirmations Also I think I prefer "Onward" rather than "Suck it up". If you have any resources that helped you, particularly in social skills, I am always looking for more resources.
  - JackFr 7y ago
    It's sounds like a cop out, but everyone's experience is different. Being bullied in middle school can be vastly different experience if your home life is pleasant and supportive vs. unpleasant or unstable, if you're academically gifted vs. prone to struggling academically, if the school is well staffed and safe vs. otherwise. I grew up in a loving home and attended good public schools in a fairly upper middle class school district. Both my brother and sister were subject to some serious bullying, and there is no question that it made their school life miserable for a time, but it was not the formative episode of their youths. On the other hand, its not hard to see in a worse situation how easily it could be.
- plughs 7y ago
  "Hello dear, how was work?" "Oh you know, some of my larger coworkers pushed me down to the floor and told me how much they hated me. But I sucked it up" "That's great, get over it!" "I will - until tomorrow, of course, when it will happen again." "Just keep sucking it up and getting over it and it will all turn out fine!" I don't know how it is we think children should be able to deal with things that would be unthinkably intolerable for adults.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - paulddraper 7y ago
    Compare shoving at age 2, age 12, and age 22. What makes these situations different is: A. Maturity. We expect developmental difference and if they don't happen, it indicates a problem. Normal but undesirable behavior at age 2 would sociopathic if done at age 22. Toddlers don't get arrested if they bite someone, while adults do; I would claim that is justifiable. B. Destructive potential. Mature people are faster, stronger, and smarter; a bar brawl has a greater chance for broken bones, concussions, etc. than a playground fight. --- That said, there are things in relationships you have to suck up and get over at work; they are different than for a middle schooler though.
    - anoncake 7y ago
      > B. Destructive potential. Mature people are faster, stronger, and smarter; a bar brawl has a greater chance for broken bones, concussions, etc. than a playground fight. That isn't even destructive. Broken bones heal and you're healthy again. Bullying a child, that is destructive.
- heartbeats 7y ago
  It doesn't seem as if the first reply to the top comment agrees with you.
- rpiguy 7y ago
  I think it depends on the severity and nature of the bullying, the personality of the child in question, and the parents can be gentler in delivering the message. On the whole I agree with you. My parents were similarly tough on me (except the one time I was bullied by a teacher, as they recognized the difference between annoying peers and someone abusing their authority and I certainly appreciated it) - however, they were not as tough on my siblings and more protective of them because they had very different personalities and it would have affected them more than it did me.
- downerending 7y ago
  Reasonable. Although I have been bullied some, it was really the overall quote that spoke to me. Everyone "wakes up" early in life and starts to realize the cards they've been dealt. It would be really nice if there were a lot of thoughtful adults around to help them to adapt to that, but the world just isn't like that. Some things can be improved, but in the end, as the ancients knew, life is ultimately suffering and sorrow.
- JDiculous 7y ago
  He didn't mention bullying actually, he was just referring to not having friends due to "anxiety, depression, and low self-esteem". I can relate. I wasn't bullied in middle school, but I had no social skills and no confidence, so I didn't really have many friends. Telling a kid like that to suck it up obviously doesn't change anything. I do however agree though in the context of being bullied.
- 77pt77 7y ago
  > Adulthood is a much more even playing field than childhood. You have resources ( > HR department, There to protect the company, not you and definitely not to admit any kind of abuse because that is a liability > change jobs Looks very bad on your resume if done after a short period of time or frequently >change neighborhoods Makes you look shady and like you are dodging responsibility. Ties with the previous point. > police Comprised by mostly ex-bulies. I'm sure that will go well. > social services Here you face real repercussions for what will be seen as you not accepting your lot in life. > lawyers, etc...) As long as you have money... > And that sometimes means standing up for yourself. Remember: Appeasement never works.
  - reaperducer 7y ago
    > HR department, There to protect the company, not you and definitely not to admit any kind of abuse because that is a liability If this was 1983, I might agree with you. But these days the vast majority of HR departments are there to protect the company from legal action brought by an unhappy employee or government agency acting on that employee's behalf. > change jobs Looks very bad on your resume if done after a short period of time or frequently Depends on your industry. In some industries, it's seen as climbing the ladder of success and that your skills are in demand. >change neighborhoods Makes you look shady and like you are dodging responsibility. I have no idea where this comes from. Maybe you're from a small European town? I've seen estimates that 30% of Americans move each year. I've lived in almost two dozen homes in 15 cities in a dozen states in my life. Everywhere from small towns under 3,000 to New York City. The longest I've ever lived anywhere is four years. Most often, I would move each year. I never heard anything along those lines from landlords, neighbors, or employers. I moved just a few months ago and all the landlord cared about was whether I'd filed for bankruptcy in the last 18 months, if I'd been evicted in the last four years, and the size of my paycheck. > police Comprised by mostly ex-bulies. I'm sure that will go well. Now you're just grasping at straws. But it's OK, I understand. People who are being bullied will grasp on to any excuse they can to keep themselves from changing their lives. It's normal. But you have to understand the difference between reasons and excuses, and how making excuses for your situation in life can prevent change.
- greedo 7y ago
  Your experiences don't translate well to anyone I've know who was bullied. I was bullied in junior high. I was told to stand up to the bullies, to defend myself. I was 5'6", 125lbs. The bullies (three of them) were all 50lbs heavier than me, and were on the football team. I stood up to them once. Kicked one in the balls. The other two, beat my ass and held me down til the third recovered; he beat on me for a good ten minutes. This went on for several years until they got bored with me and discovered girls. Sucking it up and getting over it? Yeah, I sucked it up. But you don't get over something like that. At my current job, my boss is a type A manager who encourages "competition." I have a family to finish raising, so yes, I'm powerless to change my circumstances. I suck it up everyday for the paycheck, knowing that my kids are fed, my mortgage paid, and my retirement is being funded. But to blithely state that people should suck it up and get over it minimizes the cost of that type of treatment. I have few friends, I'm incredibly cynical, and I'm probably a bad coworker since I have a sense of snark that I frequently voice.
  - anonymousDan 7y ago
    For what it's worth you should be proud of yourself for standing up to them. They on the other hand are absolute cowards.
  - kortilla 7y ago
    > I have a family to finish raising, so yes, I'm powerless to change my circumstances. Where do you live that changing teams or changing employers can’t be done until you raise a family? No offense, but in every case I’ve heard someone use that explanation, it’s just been an excuse to avoid the effort of change.
    - airstrike 7y ago
      Agreed. Unpopular opinion: few things are as detrimental to one's success as seeking comfort. Success is built on sweat, blood and tears.
      - tomrod 7y ago
        As someone who is satisfied with the success I've found in life -- you forgot a whole truckload of luck being involved. One of the few things I think Scott Adams has right when is he says we can influence our luck. But at the end we play odds, sometimes despite our sweat, blood, tears, and sometimes in spite of their lack.
- mjfl 7y ago
  This is the most shit-tier advice I've ever seen posted on Hacker News, and I've seen a lot. Basically you are implying "fuck you for being bullied, don't come to me for advice or sympathy." And you are their parent. Isn't this how pent up rage develops? Are you trying to turn your child into a school shooter?
- alexis_fr 7y ago
  « Suck it up » means « Don’t have feelings » which make me get highly cynical, and cutting all affection ties with the outside world, which makes me want to commit... bad things. To others. So no, getting cynical isn’t the solution. We need feeling towards our next of kins.
- Gatsky 7y ago
  There is some weird thinking about bullying, where the victim has to take care of it by themselves, the bullies are allowed to do whatever they want, and everyone who isn't a victim or a bully is just not involved. I was lucky, I hardly got bullied, but it always bothered me seeing other kids get it, and I used to be friendly with them as much as I could. This might sound like a pretty weak thing to say, I didn't manage to confront the bullies in some dramatic fashion (although the opportunities to do this were very few in my school at least). But I think it made a difference to show a bit of solidarity with kids that were getting bullied, some of them told me this much later.
- taurath 7y ago
  I think your comment is missing the point of the previous person's post. Its not that they've been bullied for life, its that the effect of them being bullied is ongoing and pervasive.
dlivingston 7y ago
I’m sorry to hear that. I was relatively well-liked in my school and college years, yet as an adult it has been very, very difficult to make friends.
- downerending 7y ago
  Thanks. Must have been nice, but I suppose the cost was experiencing the change to the way things are as an adult (which I think is a very common experience). In my case, I've long since adapted to a near-solitary existence, and I'd say it doesn't particularly bother me anymore.
  - dlivingston 7y ago
    Indeed, that may very well be true. Ironic, isn’t it, that we are more connected than ever and yet lonelier than ever. Here’s an idea for a founder looking for a startup: a Tinder-esque platform for meeting and making friends with similar interests. I’m sure this has been done before but certainly hasn’t become mainstream.
- tayo42 7y ago
  > yet as an adult it has been very, very difficult to make friends. Isn't this a common experience for most people now. I feel like I frequently articles highlighting loneliness in adults. I've had the same experience.
  - chubot 7y ago
    I think it's very common, but in my experience living the city helps a lot (San Francisco in my case, compared to say the south bay). There's a selection effect where people who live in dense areas are more open to meeting new people. (There's also a culture of drinking which I'm mostly over, but it's still a net positive IMO.)
bagacrap 7y ago
There are ways to get out of this rut. I suggest therapy and/or therapeutic brain drugs.
paulddraper 7y ago
Quite frankly, middle school sucks. I don't know of anyone who liked that time. Friendships are more mature than in elementary school, and no one has gained confidence enough to find their own place in the world.
- scarejunba 7y ago
  Listen, I hate to make random generalizations but I have a few observations about school as described by Americans on the Internet (I did not attend school in America). I'm only saying this because it makes me somewhat nervous about bringing up a child in a standard school in America. For conciseness I'll say "Americans" or "people" but I mean "Americans who I've seen comment on Reddit and HN". Here's what I've seen: * People say "Kids are cruel" or "Kids are little shits" or stuff like that. This is very far from what I recall school being like. Sure, some people would make fun of you, etc. but that's just banter and the process of growing up is that. You can choose to join the norm (which I saw lots of people do) or violate that norm openly (which I also saw lots of people do) and you could do that for some norms and not for others. * People say that kids made fun of each other for their clothes. We had uniforms. Everyone wore the same clothes and the same shoes. No jewelry. No cell phones. Everyone used the same tools. * People say that kids would harass them by sitting next to them and constantly belittling them. We had assigned seating. Teachers would rearrange seating based on whether you're being disruptive, whether you're making other kids uncomfortable, etc. * People say that school sucks. But I recall all school being pretty fun, even the negative feeling of heartbreak of crushes unrequited, games lost, or embarrassing moments in front of class are not feelings I carry negatively with me. * People say they were made fun of for their hobbies. People would make fun of other people. I'm not going to lie. But someone who was the class's best CS 1.5 player was celebrated for that. And the top kids in each subject were heroes. I know this usually comes off offensive but perhaps it's the structure of American schools that the complainants went to that influences the problem? FWIW in school my classmates would describe me as "eccentric" or "weird" pretty often, but ultimately they didn't hurt me in any real way. And here are some other related facts about schooling that I notice isn't the case in America: * Most people would go to school by public transit or transport themselves on non-motor vehicles: bicycles were okay but no one was allowed motorized transport. * Teachers had substantial control over the class. There was very little disruption. And when it existed it was harmless. * There were no weapons of any sort on campus. * There were drugs (I smoked weed - which I regret mildly because I suspect it made me stupider) but it wasn't a complex organized trade and the hard drugs weren't present.
taurath 7y ago
For me it absolutely set the initial tone, and that tone continued for more than a decade. Its incredibly hard to work through, and it won't ever go completely away. One plus is it gives you an "outsiders" perspective on a lot of things, which can mean you get to be correct a lot when other's can't see patterns they're caught up in. The hardest part for me at the moment is that the feeling of friendship is so fleeting, and it turns me into a people pleaser when its not necessary. I trick myself into believing that if someone isn't actively enjoying my presence, they are souring on me or are reconsidering our relationship. That belief also means its hard to keep up friendships since I often think a relationship is "over" when it could be kept up.

reaperducer 7y ago

This is going to be perhaps the least popular comment I've ever made on HN, but I will relate to you the advice my parents gave me when I was a socially awkward, introverted, bullied middle-schooler: Dad: Suck it up. Mom: Get over it. Being bullied in school doesn't mean you have to be bullied for life. As a kid, things can be stacked against you. You're surrounded by people who are older, stronger, more powerful, and more capable than you. But you don't have to be bullied as an adult if you don't allow it to happen. Adulthood is a much more even playing field than childhood. You have resources (HR department, change jobs, change neighborhoods, police, social services, lawyers, etc...) I know there are people who as adults are bullied. I know some of them. But in every case I've seen they've allowed a history of bullying to make them believe that they are powerless to change their circumstances. They're not. They choose to remain in that position because it's familiar, and change and confrontation are scary. But sometimes you've got to suck it up, act like an adult, and do adult things. And that sometimes means standing up for yourself.

curyous 7y ago
Sometimes as an adult you need to suck it up and provide for your family, working in a small industry, at a small business, getting bullied at work every day because unless you retrain, there are no their options.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  You are correct. I've been there. But these circumstances don't last forever. Life is constantly changing. Sometimes you can make the change. Sometimes you just have to wait.
- downerending 7y ago
  I've been in a similar situation, and it does truly suck. Things can be changed, but it can take quite a while and be rather painful. One thing that's helped me some is the realization that I can simply walk away from almost anything. Kids are the primary exception, and I think as a parent or guardian, you have a deep duty to suffer whatever you must to try to give them a good start in life.
fullshark 7y ago
Doesn't "suck it up" mean to bear it and ignore it? That seems at odds with the rest of your post's advice which is to stand up for yourself.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  No, suck it up means find a way to cope, which can mean suffer through it or make changes.
  - tapland 7y ago
    No. Sucking it up is acceptance of the situation, the very opposite to making changes
compiler-guy 7y ago
The article explains the danger of this approach, with reasonable science. It seems to have worked in your case but is more risky than other strategies.
- kbutler 7y ago
  I didn't see that in the article. Maybe we're interpreting it differently? It is critical for adolescents to learn to deal with hard things and to approach problems in positive ways. Love the martial arts training ididntdothis mentioned - increase the child's ability and confidence, then even without using the martial skills, the bullying stopped.
Ididntdothis 7y ago
For me bullying stopped when I started martial arts. I still wasn’t popular but people knew they shouldn’t mess with me (I never had to fight but the bullies knew I could) and left me alone. If I had kids I would definitely try to get them into jiu Jitsu class or similar. This physical confidence still carries me until today even in professional circumstances.
- downerending 7y ago
  I think this is good advice, though it never would have occurred to my parents (or me). Emotional bullying is a different problem. If I could advise my younger self, it'd be that when the line is crossed, you have to lay down the law: This stops, or I'm out of here. And put on your adult hat and follow through.
- aguyfromnb 7y ago
  >For me bullying stopped when I started martial arts. This is so true. At the end of the day, we are primal animals, and knowing that you can physically dominate (or can be physically dominated) has a huge influence in personal conflict. Not only that, martial arts are great exercise, which is one less thing you can be bullied about. It's obviously not a bullying "cure-all", but it helps.
- sunstone 7y ago
  For me it was judo. You can't really hurt others but they can't hurt you either.
admiral33 7y ago
Learning to stand up for yourself is more than "Suck it up". I think your comment is in good faith, because sucking it up is the correct response... for someone that is able to do it. But before then a change of mindset is required, and that can be a large undertaking for some people. What that helped me: - Fitness (starting with simple yoga to learn appreciation for my body, then progressing with weights) - Stoicism, Letters from a Stoic Seneca, Meditations Marcus Aurelius - Committing to memory basic social skills and nuances, The Charisma Myth - Hypnosis and self affirmations Also I think I prefer "Onward" rather than "Suck it up". If you have any resources that helped you, particularly in social skills, I am always looking for more resources.
- JackFr 7y ago
  It's sounds like a cop out, but everyone's experience is different. Being bullied in middle school can be vastly different experience if your home life is pleasant and supportive vs. unpleasant or unstable, if you're academically gifted vs. prone to struggling academically, if the school is well staffed and safe vs. otherwise. I grew up in a loving home and attended good public schools in a fairly upper middle class school district. Both my brother and sister were subject to some serious bullying, and there is no question that it made their school life miserable for a time, but it was not the formative episode of their youths. On the other hand, its not hard to see in a worse situation how easily it could be.
plughs 7y ago
"Hello dear, how was work?" "Oh you know, some of my larger coworkers pushed me down to the floor and told me how much they hated me. But I sucked it up" "That's great, get over it!" "I will - until tomorrow, of course, when it will happen again." "Just keep sucking it up and getting over it and it will all turn out fine!" I don't know how it is we think children should be able to deal with things that would be unthinkably intolerable for adults.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- paulddraper 7y ago
  Compare shoving at age 2, age 12, and age 22. What makes these situations different is: A. Maturity. We expect developmental difference and if they don't happen, it indicates a problem. Normal but undesirable behavior at age 2 would sociopathic if done at age 22. Toddlers don't get arrested if they bite someone, while adults do; I would claim that is justifiable. B. Destructive potential. Mature people are faster, stronger, and smarter; a bar brawl has a greater chance for broken bones, concussions, etc. than a playground fight. --- That said, there are things in relationships you have to suck up and get over at work; they are different than for a middle schooler though.
  - anoncake 7y ago
    > B. Destructive potential. Mature people are faster, stronger, and smarter; a bar brawl has a greater chance for broken bones, concussions, etc. than a playground fight. That isn't even destructive. Broken bones heal and you're healthy again. Bullying a child, that is destructive.
heartbeats 7y ago
It doesn't seem as if the first reply to the top comment agrees with you.
rpiguy 7y ago
I think it depends on the severity and nature of the bullying, the personality of the child in question, and the parents can be gentler in delivering the message. On the whole I agree with you. My parents were similarly tough on me (except the one time I was bullied by a teacher, as they recognized the difference between annoying peers and someone abusing their authority and I certainly appreciated it) - however, they were not as tough on my siblings and more protective of them because they had very different personalities and it would have affected them more than it did me.
downerending 7y ago
Reasonable. Although I have been bullied some, it was really the overall quote that spoke to me. Everyone "wakes up" early in life and starts to realize the cards they've been dealt. It would be really nice if there were a lot of thoughtful adults around to help them to adapt to that, but the world just isn't like that. Some things can be improved, but in the end, as the ancients knew, life is ultimately suffering and sorrow.
JDiculous 7y ago
He didn't mention bullying actually, he was just referring to not having friends due to "anxiety, depression, and low self-esteem". I can relate. I wasn't bullied in middle school, but I had no social skills and no confidence, so I didn't really have many friends. Telling a kid like that to suck it up obviously doesn't change anything. I do however agree though in the context of being bullied.
77pt77 7y ago
> Adulthood is a much more even playing field than childhood. You have resources ( > HR department, There to protect the company, not you and definitely not to admit any kind of abuse because that is a liability > change jobs Looks very bad on your resume if done after a short period of time or frequently >change neighborhoods Makes you look shady and like you are dodging responsibility. Ties with the previous point. > police Comprised by mostly ex-bulies. I'm sure that will go well. > social services Here you face real repercussions for what will be seen as you not accepting your lot in life. > lawyers, etc...) As long as you have money... > And that sometimes means standing up for yourself. Remember: Appeasement never works.
- reaperducer 7y ago
  > HR department, There to protect the company, not you and definitely not to admit any kind of abuse because that is a liability If this was 1983, I might agree with you. But these days the vast majority of HR departments are there to protect the company from legal action brought by an unhappy employee or government agency acting on that employee's behalf. > change jobs Looks very bad on your resume if done after a short period of time or frequently Depends on your industry. In some industries, it's seen as climbing the ladder of success and that your skills are in demand. >change neighborhoods Makes you look shady and like you are dodging responsibility. I have no idea where this comes from. Maybe you're from a small European town? I've seen estimates that 30% of Americans move each year. I've lived in almost two dozen homes in 15 cities in a dozen states in my life. Everywhere from small towns under 3,000 to New York City. The longest I've ever lived anywhere is four years. Most often, I would move each year. I never heard anything along those lines from landlords, neighbors, or employers. I moved just a few months ago and all the landlord cared about was whether I'd filed for bankruptcy in the last 18 months, if I'd been evicted in the last four years, and the size of my paycheck. > police Comprised by mostly ex-bulies. I'm sure that will go well. Now you're just grasping at straws. But it's OK, I understand. People who are being bullied will grasp on to any excuse they can to keep themselves from changing their lives. It's normal. But you have to understand the difference between reasons and excuses, and how making excuses for your situation in life can prevent change.
greedo 7y ago
Your experiences don't translate well to anyone I've know who was bullied. I was bullied in junior high. I was told to stand up to the bullies, to defend myself. I was 5'6", 125lbs. The bullies (three of them) were all 50lbs heavier than me, and were on the football team. I stood up to them once. Kicked one in the balls. The other two, beat my ass and held me down til the third recovered; he beat on me for a good ten minutes. This went on for several years until they got bored with me and discovered girls. Sucking it up and getting over it? Yeah, I sucked it up. But you don't get over something like that. At my current job, my boss is a type A manager who encourages "competition." I have a family to finish raising, so yes, I'm powerless to change my circumstances. I suck it up everyday for the paycheck, knowing that my kids are fed, my mortgage paid, and my retirement is being funded. But to blithely state that people should suck it up and get over it minimizes the cost of that type of treatment. I have few friends, I'm incredibly cynical, and I'm probably a bad coworker since I have a sense of snark that I frequently voice.
- anonymousDan 7y ago
  For what it's worth you should be proud of yourself for standing up to them. They on the other hand are absolute cowards.
- kortilla 7y ago
  > I have a family to finish raising, so yes, I'm powerless to change my circumstances. Where do you live that changing teams or changing employers can’t be done until you raise a family? No offense, but in every case I’ve heard someone use that explanation, it’s just been an excuse to avoid the effort of change.
  - airstrike 7y ago
    Agreed. Unpopular opinion: few things are as detrimental to one's success as seeking comfort. Success is built on sweat, blood and tears.
    - tomrod 7y ago
      As someone who is satisfied with the success I've found in life -- you forgot a whole truckload of luck being involved. One of the few things I think Scott Adams has right when is he says we can influence our luck. But at the end we play odds, sometimes despite our sweat, blood, tears, and sometimes in spite of their lack.
mjfl 7y ago
This is the most shit-tier advice I've ever seen posted on Hacker News, and I've seen a lot. Basically you are implying "fuck you for being bullied, don't come to me for advice or sympathy." And you are their parent. Isn't this how pent up rage develops? Are you trying to turn your child into a school shooter?
alexis_fr 7y ago
« Suck it up » means « Don’t have feelings » which make me get highly cynical, and cutting all affection ties with the outside world, which makes me want to commit... bad things. To others. So no, getting cynical isn’t the solution. We need feeling towards our next of kins.
Gatsky 7y ago
There is some weird thinking about bullying, where the victim has to take care of it by themselves, the bullies are allowed to do whatever they want, and everyone who isn't a victim or a bully is just not involved. I was lucky, I hardly got bullied, but it always bothered me seeing other kids get it, and I used to be friendly with them as much as I could. This might sound like a pretty weak thing to say, I didn't manage to confront the bullies in some dramatic fashion (although the opportunities to do this were very few in my school at least). But I think it made a difference to show a bit of solidarity with kids that were getting bullied, some of them told me this much later.
taurath 7y ago
I think your comment is missing the point of the previous person's post. Its not that they've been bullied for life, its that the effect of them being bullied is ongoing and pervasive.

dlivingston 7y ago

I’m sorry to hear that. I was relatively well-liked in my school and college years, yet as an adult it has been very, very difficult to make friends.

downerending 7y ago
Thanks. Must have been nice, but I suppose the cost was experiencing the change to the way things are as an adult (which I think is a very common experience). In my case, I've long since adapted to a near-solitary existence, and I'd say it doesn't particularly bother me anymore.
- dlivingston 7y ago
  Indeed, that may very well be true. Ironic, isn’t it, that we are more connected than ever and yet lonelier than ever. Here’s an idea for a founder looking for a startup: a Tinder-esque platform for meeting and making friends with similar interests. I’m sure this has been done before but certainly hasn’t become mainstream.
tayo42 7y ago
> yet as an adult it has been very, very difficult to make friends. Isn't this a common experience for most people now. I feel like I frequently articles highlighting loneliness in adults. I've had the same experience.
- chubot 7y ago
  I think it's very common, but in my experience living the city helps a lot (San Francisco in my case, compared to say the south bay). There's a selection effect where people who live in dense areas are more open to meeting new people. (There's also a culture of drinking which I'm mostly over, but it's still a net positive IMO.)

bagacrap 7y ago

There are ways to get out of this rut. I suggest therapy and/or therapeutic brain drugs.

paulddraper 7y ago

Quite frankly, middle school sucks. I don't know of anyone who liked that time. Friendships are more mature than in elementary school, and no one has gained confidence enough to find their own place in the world.

scarejunba 7y ago
Listen, I hate to make random generalizations but I have a few observations about school as described by Americans on the Internet (I did not attend school in America). I'm only saying this because it makes me somewhat nervous about bringing up a child in a standard school in America. For conciseness I'll say "Americans" or "people" but I mean "Americans who I've seen comment on Reddit and HN". Here's what I've seen: * People say "Kids are cruel" or "Kids are little shits" or stuff like that. This is very far from what I recall school being like. Sure, some people would make fun of you, etc. but that's just banter and the process of growing up is that. You can choose to join the norm (which I saw lots of people do) or violate that norm openly (which I also saw lots of people do) and you could do that for some norms and not for others. * People say that kids made fun of each other for their clothes. We had uniforms. Everyone wore the same clothes and the same shoes. No jewelry. No cell phones. Everyone used the same tools. * People say that kids would harass them by sitting next to them and constantly belittling them. We had assigned seating. Teachers would rearrange seating based on whether you're being disruptive, whether you're making other kids uncomfortable, etc. * People say that school sucks. But I recall all school being pretty fun, even the negative feeling of heartbreak of crushes unrequited, games lost, or embarrassing moments in front of class are not feelings I carry negatively with me. * People say they were made fun of for their hobbies. People would make fun of other people. I'm not going to lie. But someone who was the class's best CS 1.5 player was celebrated for that. And the top kids in each subject were heroes. I know this usually comes off offensive but perhaps it's the structure of American schools that the complainants went to that influences the problem? FWIW in school my classmates would describe me as "eccentric" or "weird" pretty often, but ultimately they didn't hurt me in any real way. And here are some other related facts about schooling that I notice isn't the case in America: * Most people would go to school by public transit or transport themselves on non-motor vehicles: bicycles were okay but no one was allowed motorized transport. * Teachers had substantial control over the class. There was very little disruption. And when it existed it was harmless. * There were no weapons of any sort on campus. * There were drugs (I smoked weed - which I regret mildly because I suspect it made me stupider) but it wasn't a complex organized trade and the hard drugs weren't present.

taurath 7y ago

For me it absolutely set the initial tone, and that tone continued for more than a decade. Its incredibly hard to work through, and it won't ever go completely away. One plus is it gives you an "outsiders" perspective on a lot of things, which can mean you get to be correct a lot when other's can't see patterns they're caught up in. The hardest part for me at the moment is that the feeling of friendship is so fleeting, and it turns me into a people pleaser when its not necessary. I trick myself into believing that if someone isn't actively enjoying my presence, they are souring on me or are reconsidering our relationship. That belief also means its hard to keep up friendships since I often think a relationship is "over" when it could be kept up.