4 ms·

The requester being snarky is obviously not a valid legal reason for Facebook to not follow the law. But the people who fulfill these requests are human, so you

The requester being snarky is obviously not a valid legal reason for Facebook to not follow the law. But the people who fulfill these requests are human, so you should expect that acting like a jerk probably won't help. Further, Ruben is mostly being snarky to lower level Facebook employees who probably have little say in Facebook policies. Don't shoot the messenger. This is like being rude to phone support staff because the product is bad. It's not the phone support people's fault. Let's assume good faith on the part of the low level employees. Ultimately the people fulfilling these requests are probably not given enough resources to fulfill all valid requests (this is true for FOIA requests in my experience), so they have to think of (literal) nonsense to deny them. They might even have a quota. Do you think snark is going to help in this situation? I don't. And I think reality is close to this situation. Ultimately the higher level people who set the policies and the budget for the GDPR/FOIA/whatever department are responsible. (And I don't think being snarky to the higher ups is going to help either, incidentally.)

rubenverborgh 7y ago
I have zero interest in harassing people. Unconventional replies cause escalation; Facebook’s current staff on this is on a higher pay scale than most. I’ve made my mails impossible to ignore to the point of there being no plausible deniability; the entire GDPR department is aware by now. Given what you and others wrote above, it should probably be clear what real actions are going on behind the smoke and mirrors on my site.
- btrettel 7y ago
  > Unconventional replies cause escalation Not in my experience with FOIA requests. They likely have a process. Your request will be fulfilled either if they can't find a reason to deny it or if fulfilling it is easy for them. Since Facebook is making up a bogus reason and won't bulge, you need to figure out which regulator is responsible and contact them. Your snark is honestly impressive. However, if snark was going to work, it would have worked already. Facebook probably thinks that all you're going to do if they deny your request is reply with snark, so there's no reason for them to do anything in response at present. Words alone can't hurt them. > Facebook’s current staff on this is on a higher pay scale than most. What matters is who sets the policies for the company and the budget for the GDPR department, not how much individual employees who respond to the requests are paid. I doubt the people in the GDPR department set their budget and Facebook's GDPR policies on their own. > I’ve made my mails impossible to ignore to the point of there being no plausible deniability; the entire GDPR department is aware by now. I agree that Facebook's employees probably aren't ignoring you in the strict sense that they don't even read what you say. Maybe they forward your emails internally with comments like "Get a load of this guy!", but I don't think that's helping you. If anything, it hurts you because they have more people thinking of ways to deny your request. > Given what you and others wrote above, it should probably be clear what real actions are going on behind the smoke and mirrors on my site. If by this you mean that you've contacted a regulator or lawyer, good, I'm happy to hear that. I don't see a reason to hide that, however.
  - rubenverborgh 7y ago
    Just not putting all my cards on the table for them to see yet, but I will eventually. The tone drew attention to the case from press and local authorities, which resulted in the right people reaching out to me. It's unconventional, but there's a method in my madness.
    - btrettel 7y ago
      Fair point. I wouldn't have done it that way, but sounds like you're on track. Good luck.

rubenverborgh 7y ago

I have zero interest in harassing people. Unconventional replies cause escalation; Facebook’s current staff on this is on a higher pay scale than most. I’ve made my mails impossible to ignore to the point of there being no plausible deniability; the entire GDPR department is aware by now. Given what you and others wrote above, it should probably be clear what real actions are going on behind the smoke and mirrors on my site.

btrettel 7y ago
> Unconventional replies cause escalation Not in my experience with FOIA requests. They likely have a process. Your request will be fulfilled either if they can't find a reason to deny it or if fulfilling it is easy for them. Since Facebook is making up a bogus reason and won't bulge, you need to figure out which regulator is responsible and contact them. Your snark is honestly impressive. However, if snark was going to work, it would have worked already. Facebook probably thinks that all you're going to do if they deny your request is reply with snark, so there's no reason for them to do anything in response at present. Words alone can't hurt them. > Facebook’s current staff on this is on a higher pay scale than most. What matters is who sets the policies for the company and the budget for the GDPR department, not how much individual employees who respond to the requests are paid. I doubt the people in the GDPR department set their budget and Facebook's GDPR policies on their own. > I’ve made my mails impossible to ignore to the point of there being no plausible deniability; the entire GDPR department is aware by now. I agree that Facebook's employees probably aren't ignoring you in the strict sense that they don't even read what you say. Maybe they forward your emails internally with comments like "Get a load of this guy!", but I don't think that's helping you. If anything, it hurts you because they have more people thinking of ways to deny your request. > Given what you and others wrote above, it should probably be clear what real actions are going on behind the smoke and mirrors on my site. If by this you mean that you've contacted a regulator or lawyer, good, I'm happy to hear that. I don't see a reason to hide that, however.
- rubenverborgh 7y ago
  Just not putting all my cards on the table for them to see yet, but I will eventually. The tone drew attention to the case from press and local authorities, which resulted in the right people reaching out to me. It's unconventional, but there's a method in my madness.
  - btrettel 7y ago
    Fair point. I wouldn't have done it that way, but sounds like you're on track. Good luck.