4 ms·

> (because Usenet is perhaps the dumbest imaginable way to transmit a large binary, a Usenet binary was a chain of separate posts, all of which were needed to r

> (because Usenet is perhaps the dumbest imaginable way to transmit a large binary, a Usenet binary was a chain of separate posts, all of which were needed to reassemble the binary) I just realized that this is superficially similar to how bittorrent works...

tptacek 7y ago
Not at all. BitTorrent is forward error corrected. It splits binaries up into chunks as an optimization, and ensures that you don't need a precise sequence of chunks to reassemble the file; an error correcting code ensures that you only need k of n chunks. Usenet binaries were literally just raw binaries, uuencoded(!), and split up into n chunks, of which you need all n chunks. Those streams of chunks were then broadcast to every node on the network, despite the fact that only a subset of nodes ever wanted any particular binary. It was and remains the most batshit file transfer mechanism ever devised.
- lvh 7y ago
  Not that I'd know: but at some point after the nineties Usenet figured out PAR files too, so you wouldn't quite need all the chunks because NNTP servers would drop some of them occasionally -- though to your point, yes, every NNTP server would de facto mirror everything.
- 300bps 7y ago
  They actually fixed that problem around 2001! It's been over 15 years since I've done anything with Usenet binaries so I'm shocked I was able to recall the PAR file technology. Essentially, if you posted 50 parts of your encoded binary, you would generally post an additional 5 or 6 PAR files. Downloaders could then utilize a PAR file on a one-to-one basis to replace literally any of the 50 original files. It's been a long time but I used them extensively and it was a good way to correct errors or missing files. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- cpach 7y ago
  Another weird thing is that in the early 10’s, people where still downloading warez over Usenet. Maybe it’s still a thing even today.
  - banana_giraffe 7y ago
    It still is. It's not quite the glory days of the alt.binaries.*, though. Now people share using nzb files, which means the actual posts on USENET are often just title-less binary blobs, impossible to know what they even are without the nzb files, which are often shared via private or semi-private websites or other channels.

tptacek 7y ago

Not at all. BitTorrent is forward error corrected. It splits binaries up into chunks as an optimization, and ensures that you don't need a precise sequence of chunks to reassemble the file; an error correcting code ensures that you only need k of n chunks. Usenet binaries were literally just raw binaries, uuencoded(!), and split up into n chunks, of which you need all n chunks. Those streams of chunks were then broadcast to every node on the network, despite the fact that only a subset of nodes ever wanted any particular binary. It was and remains the most batshit file transfer mechanism ever devised.

lvh 7y ago
Not that I'd know: but at some point after the nineties Usenet figured out PAR files too, so you wouldn't quite need all the chunks because NNTP servers would drop some of them occasionally -- though to your point, yes, every NNTP server would de facto mirror everything.
300bps 7y ago
They actually fixed that problem around 2001! It's been over 15 years since I've done anything with Usenet binaries so I'm shocked I was able to recall the PAR file technology. Essentially, if you posted 50 parts of your encoded binary, you would generally post an additional 5 or 6 PAR files. Downloaders could then utilize a PAR file on a one-to-one basis to replace literally any of the 50 original files. It's been a long time but I used them extensively and it was a good way to correct errors or missing files. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parchive
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
cpach 7y ago
Another weird thing is that in the early 10’s, people where still downloading warez over Usenet. Maybe it’s still a thing even today.
- banana_giraffe 7y ago
  It still is. It's not quite the glory days of the alt.binaries.*, though. Now people share using nzb files, which means the actual posts on USENET are often just title-less binary blobs, impossible to know what they even are without the nzb files, which are often shared via private or semi-private websites or other channels.