4 ms·

Keto diet works best in small doses, mouse study finds

30 points by LinuxBender 7y ago

rogerkirkness 7y ago
Once you catch up on autophagy debt it's all just a bunch of less efficient energy.
- unixhero 7y ago
  Would you mind explaining autophagy debt?
  - ackshually 7y ago
    Autophagy is the natural, regulated mechanism of the cell that removes unnecessary or dysfunctional components. It allows the orderly degradation and recycling of cellular components. The debt would be a buildup of those components.
kirstenbirgit 7y ago
> When mice continue to eat the high-fat, low-carb diet beyond one week, Dixit said, they consume more fat than they can burn, and develop diabetes and obesity But that's not how anyone is doing Keto. It's not that easy to eat the massive amounts of fat this would require, which is why most people on Keto lose weight easily. Also, why do we need mice to tell us this? Consuming large amounts of calories in general can trigger diabetes, right? In addition, Keto is extremely popular, so why not test on humans?
- clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
  Don't most human keto studies fail because it's extremely hard to stick with? https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/should-you-try-the-keto-diet https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/should-you-tr...
  - weego 7y ago
    If you over do the protein - fat balance you just end up in gluconeogenesis instead of ketogenesis which is not a good way to do it (it's just atkins). It's very difficult to balance for your average person with a life outside of training and nutrition
    - Relys 7y ago
      Which is why proper nutrition needs to be taught as a mandatory class in high-school. Hell, even medical students "on average only received 23.9 contact hours of nutrition instruction during medical school" [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/
kingludite 7y ago
I'm trying to grow while doing a lot of cardio which takes a quite different eating approach. If I want the benefits of autophagy I would do a few days of keto followed by a few days of fasting. During the fast I would eat small amounts of carbs, near zero protein and small amounts of fat. After that I would eat properly for a few days, say a week and repeat the cycle. The duration of the keto would be something like 4-6 days but if I get bored with it I would cut it down to minimum 2. The fast too should last until I no longer feel like it.
- kingludite 7y ago
  Not sure why the down vote but ill give some more details the post was perhaps lacking. A few days of keto to get adjusted for fat burning. Doing that while fasting seems to harsh. Similarly, shutting down the digestive system entirely for longer than 48 hours seems nonsensical and dangerous while one meal per day seems slacking off. A small amount of food less than 10 gr protein (hard to digest) 40 ish grams of carbs and 30 ish grams of fat should be enough to remedy the sense of starvation while not breaking the fast. The variable duration is because I want to enjoy what I'm doing and I listen to my body. You also don't have the sense of failure if you plan things like this. Cheating while dieting seems the nr 1 reason to give up. For example, people always get fat again after they give up on a diet. That keto might be bad if done for longer than a week makes this comfortable approach all the more appealing.
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    Have you considered intermittent fasting instead of keto? Compliance is easier IMHO, and when paired with weight lifting, results are rapidly observed. Also would recommend swimming for cardio.
    - kingludite 7y ago
      Yes but I see no reason for 24 hour cycles. So few hours is rather short for a fast. Keto seems great to switch on fat burning. Fasting will do it too of course but there is already enough stress when fasting. If it doesn't need to happen all at the same time I'd rather not.
Sohcahtoa82 7y ago
> A ketogenic diet -- which provides 99 percent of calories from fat and only 1 percent from carbohydrates Uh...People on keto don't get 99% of calories from fat. There's a significant amount of protein mixed in there. I don't even know how I would get 99% of my calories from fat without eating a diet of pure butter and animal fat.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]

30 points by LinuxBender 7y ago

rogerkirkness 7y ago

Once you catch up on autophagy debt it's all just a bunch of less efficient energy.

unixhero 7y ago
Would you mind explaining autophagy debt?
- ackshually 7y ago
  Autophagy is the natural, regulated mechanism of the cell that removes unnecessary or dysfunctional components. It allows the orderly degradation and recycling of cellular components. The debt would be a buildup of those components.

kirstenbirgit 7y ago

> When mice continue to eat the high-fat, low-carb diet beyond one week, Dixit said, they consume more fat than they can burn, and develop diabetes and obesity But that's not how anyone is doing Keto. It's not that easy to eat the massive amounts of fat this would require, which is why most people on Keto lose weight easily. Also, why do we need mice to tell us this? Consuming large amounts of calories in general can trigger diabetes, right? In addition, Keto is extremely popular, so why not test on humans?

clSTophEjUdRanu 7y ago
Don't most human keto studies fail because it's extremely hard to stick with? https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/should-you-try-the-keto-diet https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/should-you-tr...
- weego 7y ago
  If you over do the protein - fat balance you just end up in gluconeogenesis instead of ketogenesis which is not a good way to do it (it's just atkins). It's very difficult to balance for your average person with a life outside of training and nutrition
  - Relys 7y ago
    Which is why proper nutrition needs to be taught as a mandatory class in high-school. Hell, even medical students "on average only received 23.9 contact hours of nutrition instruction during medical school" [1] [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430660/

kingludite 7y ago

I'm trying to grow while doing a lot of cardio which takes a quite different eating approach. If I want the benefits of autophagy I would do a few days of keto followed by a few days of fasting. During the fast I would eat small amounts of carbs, near zero protein and small amounts of fat. After that I would eat properly for a few days, say a week and repeat the cycle. The duration of the keto would be something like 4-6 days but if I get bored with it I would cut it down to minimum 2. The fast too should last until I no longer feel like it.

kingludite 7y ago
Not sure why the down vote but ill give some more details the post was perhaps lacking. A few days of keto to get adjusted for fat burning. Doing that while fasting seems to harsh. Similarly, shutting down the digestive system entirely for longer than 48 hours seems nonsensical and dangerous while one meal per day seems slacking off. A small amount of food less than 10 gr protein (hard to digest) 40 ish grams of carbs and 30 ish grams of fat should be enough to remedy the sense of starvation while not breaking the fast. The variable duration is because I want to enjoy what I'm doing and I listen to my body. You also don't have the sense of failure if you plan things like this. Cheating while dieting seems the nr 1 reason to give up. For example, people always get fat again after they give up on a diet. That keto might be bad if done for longer than a week makes this comfortable approach all the more appealing.
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  Have you considered intermittent fasting instead of keto? Compliance is easier IMHO, and when paired with weight lifting, results are rapidly observed. Also would recommend swimming for cardio.
  - kingludite 7y ago
    Yes but I see no reason for 24 hour cycles. So few hours is rather short for a fast. Keto seems great to switch on fat burning. Fasting will do it too of course but there is already enough stress when fasting. If it doesn't need to happen all at the same time I'd rather not.

Sohcahtoa82 7y ago

> A ketogenic diet -- which provides 99 percent of calories from fat and only 1 percent from carbohydrates Uh...People on keto don't get 99% of calories from fat. There's a significant amount of protein mixed in there. I don't even know how I would get 99% of my calories from fat without eating a diet of pure butter and animal fat.

deleted 7y ago
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