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I wouldn’t say HN is going down hill but one thing that I’ve noticed more of is downvoting because people disagree with the comment. That was never the intenti

I wouldn’t say HN is going down hill but one thing that I’ve noticed more of is downvoting because people disagree with the comment. That was never the intention behind downvoting privileges if I remember right. Down voting exists to bury flippant, inappropriate or insulting comments. We really cramp quality discourse when we automatically hit down just because we disagree.

microcolonel 7y ago
I think it's natural that downvoting is used for disagreement, but the barrier to entry should be higher. The system I've proposed is: you can downvote a post if you've upvoted a reply to it, or if you have replied. If somebody is breaking the rules in clear bad faith, that's what flagging is for.
- baud147258 7y ago
  There seems to be something like this in play, there are discussions where I can't downvote, but I've never dig up to check why
  - microcolonel 7y ago
    You can't downvote replies to your own replies, that's the one I'm aware of. Maybe there's another level based on karma that was introduced since I got where I am.
    - detaro 7y ago
      Can't downvote comments older than >24 hours is another thing.
      - baud147258 7y ago
        Ah, I didn't know that, but it checks out. Thank you.
krapp 7y ago
>That was never the intention behind downvoting privileges if I remember right. Down voting exists to bury flippant, inappropriate or insulting comments. PG said it was OK once, because upvoting for agreement is also OK, and now it's permanently baked into the culture, despite the obviously incorrect assumption that merely because the actions are symmetrical, their effects are also symmetrical. It's also funny that people have been saying HN has been going downhill or "turning into Reddit" since the beginning. It's common enough that it is (or used to be) specifically barred in the guidelines. I think there's a tendency for many people to consider everyone who came to a culture before them to be authentic, and everyone who came after them to be the ones destroying it. The Eternal September effect is real, but it also panders to nostalgia and a sense of entitlement that says things were better when we and our culture were more relevant.
brewdad 7y ago
I think this is a reflection of the culture at large, online and off, where so many argue in bad faith or refuse to accept basic facts as true. In online communities where so many are anonymous or psuedo-anonymous, it becomes easier and more mentally healthy to downvote an opposing position than to reply with a well reasoned response only to find out your dealing with a bot or someone who insists the sky is green. I'm not sure how we fix this, though the signal to noise ratio is higher here than many other sites, so I keep coming back.
astura 7y ago
No, pg said that downvoting for disagreement is ok. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314
- pdonis 7y ago
  Then I disagree with him. :-) I personally try not to downvote a post I disagree with, if I think it's a valid, reasonable contribution to the discussion.
  - kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
    More people need to upvote posts that they do disagree with when it is a reasonable contribution.

microcolonel 7y ago

I think it's natural that downvoting is used for disagreement, but the barrier to entry should be higher. The system I've proposed is: you can downvote a post if you've upvoted a reply to it, or if you have replied. If somebody is breaking the rules in clear bad faith, that's what flagging is for.

baud147258 7y ago
There seems to be something like this in play, there are discussions where I can't downvote, but I've never dig up to check why
- microcolonel 7y ago
  You can't downvote replies to your own replies, that's the one I'm aware of. Maybe there's another level based on karma that was introduced since I got where I am.
  - detaro 7y ago
    Can't downvote comments older than >24 hours is another thing.
    - baud147258 7y ago
      Ah, I didn't know that, but it checks out. Thank you.

krapp 7y ago

>That was never the intention behind downvoting privileges if I remember right. Down voting exists to bury flippant, inappropriate or insulting comments. PG said it was OK once, because upvoting for agreement is also OK, and now it's permanently baked into the culture, despite the obviously incorrect assumption that merely because the actions are symmetrical, their effects are also symmetrical. It's also funny that people have been saying HN has been going downhill or "turning into Reddit" since the beginning. It's common enough that it is (or used to be) specifically barred in the guidelines. I think there's a tendency for many people to consider everyone who came to a culture before them to be authentic, and everyone who came after them to be the ones destroying it. The Eternal September effect is real, but it also panders to nostalgia and a sense of entitlement that says things were better when we and our culture were more relevant.

brewdad 7y ago

I think this is a reflection of the culture at large, online and off, where so many argue in bad faith or refuse to accept basic facts as true. In online communities where so many are anonymous or psuedo-anonymous, it becomes easier and more mentally healthy to downvote an opposing position than to reply with a well reasoned response only to find out your dealing with a bot or someone who insists the sky is green. I'm not sure how we fix this, though the signal to noise ratio is higher here than many other sites, so I keep coming back.

astura 7y ago

No, pg said that downvoting for disagreement is ok. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16131314

pdonis 7y ago
Then I disagree with him. :-) I personally try not to downvote a post I disagree with, if I think it's a valid, reasonable contribution to the discussion.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  More people need to upvote posts that they do disagree with when it is a reasonable contribution.