5 ms·

> Where is the EU's evidence that FB/Inta etc. have launched products that have caused individual, social harm? That's the whole point of the precautionary pri

by tyfon 7y ago

> Where is the EU's evidence that FB/Inta etc. have launched products that have caused individual, social harm? That's the whole point of the precautionary principle, you need to consider it carefully before barging in. You need to find the evidence that it is ok not that it is not ok. But in this case there is already evidence that social media can at least be a catalyst for increasing individual and social harm. I'll just link the first result from googling "facebook myanmar" [1]. There are also cases where leaking of data from dating websites (more relevant to the topic at hand) causes great individual harm [2]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebook-genocide.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/15/technology/myanmar-facebo... [2] https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34044506 https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-34044506

jariel 7y ago
" You need to find the evidence that it is ok not that it is not ok." One of the leading causes of deaths of healthy people in every nation is cars! Do you think we should put the CEO of Volvo in jail for mass murder? Why are you not trying to get GM and Ford shut down immediately for all of the death they care to enable? And consider the vast environmental impact! This notion of 'proving something causes no harm' before using it is unecessary for anything other than literally dangerous products. So foods, chemicals, things that involve electricity, there's very good regulations for those things. But are we going to ban 'Spotify' until you can figure out the long-term effects of that economic model and how it might affect the music industry artists? No. Social Media is a new form of human interaction that has come about for a variety of reasons, and we're going to have to figure it out. People are not dying in the streets, more importantly, those who have challenges with it simply don't have to use it. In between those grey areas, we have to work things out - but this is not specifically a Facebook problem. There are a number of thoughtful regulations that the US or EU could implement, but almost none of them are being suggested, and the example provided in this article proves this to some degree. Ireland is not protecting anyone or accomplishing anything at all with this specific regulatory apparatus.
- simion314 7y ago
  There are regulations for vehicles, you can't just create a random thing with wheels. So why GDPR that asks you to inform people what you collect and for what purpose you collect is as bad, car manufacturers have a lot of things to put into the cars like mirrors, lights, safety features etc where software companies just need to inform the users and show how they protect the users data, also they have to report when the data is compromised.
  - jariel 7y ago
    GDPR is fine. Banning Facebook until they can 'prove they cause no harm' is ridiculous, i.e. the OP's reference to 'do no harm' or 'conservative principle'. Also, though GDPR is mostly good, a lot of other regulations are not, for example, the one in this article wherein Ireland needs to approve Facebook's dating app. The malaise from general social media is a new social problem, and almost nothing FB does will mitigate it. We need to learn to live in a new world where general social media products exist.
    - simion314 7y ago
      There was no ban though, Facebook was required by law to produce documentation on how they will handle the data and Facebook decided to delay the launch. Facebook has a large number of users and a reputation of poorly handling the private the data with "bugs" causing data to be stolen, FB is proud of moving fast and breaking things, ignoring the law (when they ignored the requirement of not to connect WhatsApp users with the FB accounts ) so I think is fair someone is asking them on what exactly are doing before not after they launch. On dating apps you are not forced to put your real name and exact address but in FB people already have the full names, relatives, school and work colleagues so a bad actor that would find a lot about somebody compared to a random dating website where they can find your contry and region and your preferences.

by tyfon 7y ago

jariel 7y ago

" You need to find the evidence that it is ok not that it is not ok." One of the leading causes of deaths of healthy people in every nation is cars! Do you think we should put the CEO of Volvo in jail for mass murder? Why are you not trying to get GM and Ford shut down immediately for all of the death they care to enable? And consider the vast environmental impact! This notion of 'proving something causes no harm' before using it is unecessary for anything other than literally dangerous products. So foods, chemicals, things that involve electricity, there's very good regulations for those things. But are we going to ban 'Spotify' until you can figure out the long-term effects of that economic model and how it might affect the music industry artists? No. Social Media is a new form of human interaction that has come about for a variety of reasons, and we're going to have to figure it out. People are not dying in the streets, more importantly, those who have challenges with it simply don't have to use it. In between those grey areas, we have to work things out - but this is not specifically a Facebook problem. There are a number of thoughtful regulations that the US or EU could implement, but almost none of them are being suggested, and the example provided in this article proves this to some degree. Ireland is not protecting anyone or accomplishing anything at all with this specific regulatory apparatus.

simion314 7y ago
There are regulations for vehicles, you can't just create a random thing with wheels. So why GDPR that asks you to inform people what you collect and for what purpose you collect is as bad, car manufacturers have a lot of things to put into the cars like mirrors, lights, safety features etc where software companies just need to inform the users and show how they protect the users data, also they have to report when the data is compromised.
- jariel 7y ago
  GDPR is fine. Banning Facebook until they can 'prove they cause no harm' is ridiculous, i.e. the OP's reference to 'do no harm' or 'conservative principle'. Also, though GDPR is mostly good, a lot of other regulations are not, for example, the one in this article wherein Ireland needs to approve Facebook's dating app. The malaise from general social media is a new social problem, and almost nothing FB does will mitigate it. We need to learn to live in a new world where general social media products exist.
  - simion314 7y ago
    There was no ban though, Facebook was required by law to produce documentation on how they will handle the data and Facebook decided to delay the launch. Facebook has a large number of users and a reputation of poorly handling the private the data with "bugs" causing data to be stolen, FB is proud of moving fast and breaking things, ignoring the law (when they ignored the requirement of not to connect WhatsApp users with the FB accounts ) so I think is fair someone is asking them on what exactly are doing before not after they launch. On dating apps you are not forced to put your real name and exact address but in FB people already have the full names, relatives, school and work colleagues so a bad actor that would find a lot about somebody compared to a random dating website where they can find your contry and region and your preferences.