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>Decentralized / Shared Ownership - a genuinely public space no one “owned” >IMO, this last aspect is what made Usenet truly special. >The idea that no one wa
by jasode 7y ago
>Decentralized / Shared Ownership - a genuinely public space no one “owned”
>IMO, this last aspect is what made Usenet truly special.
>The idea that no one was bigger than any given (news)group was baked directly into the software. Everyone held the keys to the castle.
[...] Sadly, it seems we’ve given up on the idea of online communities as shared spaces — but studying Usenet is a great way to be reminded of what’s possible.
I took the opposite lesson from USENET history: shared spaces where _everyone_ has equal say and power is _impossible_.
(Much of my thinking in the following paragraphs is influenced by Clay Shirky but his essay seems to be deleted from the internet.[1])
Any digital shared space that needs to function for the long term will always create a formal (or informal) power structure where a subset have disproportionate influence. Therefore, any idealism of a shared space where everyone has equal say or power will devolve into unequal power. This has happened with all "digital shared spaces" of any significance outside of USENET such as Bitcoin (democratic home computers --> China ASIC miners), or Ethereum (a few influential developers choose to reverse the DAO hack), or Wikipedia (super editors with special powers to reverse edits). The repetition of that human history across many digital domains shows that only a subset will hold the keys to the castle.
I was an avid user of USENET in the 1980s. I learned C Language by asking questions in USENET (comp.lang.c). I also had my first long discussions on economics on USENET. I have a fondness for nostalgia but that doesn't change the fact that reddit/Stackoverflow/HN are far more useful to me than USENET ever was. I think that private ownership of those entities improves baseline quality of discussion. Sure, Mastodon is decentralized but the discussions there are not as interesting to me as the front page of HN. We techies don't like to admit that decentralization makes shared spaces worse on many dimensions which is why I abandoned USENET because it wasted too much of my reading time.
[1]https://www.google.com/search?q=clay+shirky+group+worst+enemy https://www.google.com/search?q=clay+shirky+group+worst+enem...
- prepend 7y agoThere aren’t too many truly successful forums I know of, but I think the key is some form of benevolent dictatorship and transparency so the community can fork or more quickly depart. HN might be the last forum working forum where I participate and it’s pretty topic specific. There are still some dev projects that use irc (maybe pandas), but email is expensive to support because it’s 1:1 in that my answer only helps the recipient and it gets mixed in with all the other stuff. I recently had a problem with the Altair python viz package and submitted a question on GitHub but found their google group [0] from searching and had someone help me in the middle of the night EST. That was neat. I think my take away is that there doesn’t need to be a single protocol like nntp as long as there is effective search. Although I do miss my morning coffee and Usenet. Phenomenal porn too. [0] https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/altair-viz https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!forum/altair-viz
- jsmoov 7y agoI'm a huge fan of Clay - wish he'd bring his essays back online :/ I think he's right re: _equal say or power devolves into unequal power_ Maybe the key is not giving everyone equal power, but distributing power in away that captures each member's preferences for who should wield that power?
- homarp 7y agoArchive version of Clay's essay: https://web.archive.org/web/20160130112601/http://www.shirky.com/writings/group_enemy.html https://web.archive.org/web/20160130112601/http://www.shirky...