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Facebook Dating launch blocked in Europe after it fails to show privacy workings

355 points by ajaviaad 7y ago

unnouinceput 7y ago
It's Facebook after all, so of course there is no privacy there. Imagine using this service and with their total lack of privacy and having your preferences spilled out. Same as putting them on a billboard.
- jka 7y ago
  What could be worse is if the same patterns and culture of allowing targeting and monetization carry over to Facebook Dating from the rest of the Facebook platform and organization. Combined with romance scams[0], it seems possible that Facebook Dating would provide narcissists, manipulators and fraudsters with a lucrative marketplace to operate in. [0] - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51459517 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51459517
  - Fernicia 7y ago
    This is basically a Nigerian prince fraud. What's new?
- londons_explore 7y ago
  > Same as putting them on a billboard. I don't really understand why services like these don't drop the pretense of keeping your private data private, and instead simply say "anything you write on our website will be published online publicly". While there might be some user backlash, I don't think it would be that big, and would meet all the laws and regulations.
  - g_p 7y ago
    Interestingly, this might not necessarily comply with GDPR Article 25 (2): > The controller shall implement appropriate technical and organisational measures for ensuring that, by default, only personal data which are necessary for each specific purpose of the processing are processed. That obligation applies to the amount of personal data collected, the extent of their processing, the period of their storage and their accessibility. In particular, such measures shall ensure that by default personal data are not made accessible without the individual’s intervention to an indefinite number of natural persons. The intent appears to be to prevent a scenario where personal data is "shared publicly" by default. Given the broad definition of "personal data" and the underlying principle of "privacy by default", it seems likely to me that a "default-to-public" sharing system would be non-compliant.
- heartbeats 7y ago
  To be fair, it's somewhat more justified for dating. Doing creepy psychological profiling to sell me ads for a few extra shekels? Very dodgy. Doing creepy psychological profiling to find matches with traits neither party would otherwise voluntarily disclose on a public profile? I mean, yeah, sure. It's not the case that people are concerned over Facebook having their innermost desires stored on some server somewhere, although they like to pretend so. The issue is more along the lines of whether natural persons they interact with IRL see them - this is why people are OK with using Tinder and Facebook messenger, but not with having private conversations over Twitter. Of course, they'll use the profiling for both. But the end user arguably extracts more of the value than they do from getting sold more relevant ads.
  - chrisseaton 7y ago
    > Doing creepy psychological profiling to sell me ads for a few extra shekels? Is this antisemetic? Why did you say shekels rather than dollars?
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - Konnstann 7y ago
      shekels is more fun to say than dollars, that's why I use it. Currency is interchangeable, so why not?
      - chrisseaton 7y ago
        > so why not? Because there's a slur going back millennia against the Jewish people persecuting them as conspiring money-grabbers, and Zuckerberg has Jewish heritage and you were accusing him of being a conspiring money-grabber.
        dmitriid 7y ago
        I'm of Jewish heritage, I chuckled at the joke. Please stop being offended on behalf of other nations and races.
- blaser-waffle 7y ago
  Isn't Tinder already linked to a Facebook account? You think those aren't exchanging data somehow?
Zenst 7y ago
Just in time for Valentines day, you just know somebody in marketing will be emoting over this..
- xxs 7y ago
  The Valentine Day is not a big event at this side of the Atlantic. There is some chance, the marketing has caught up with the younger generation, though.
  - mywacaday 7y ago
    Out of interest where are you based, valentines day is huge in Ireland & UK?
  - krick 7y ago
    Which side is "this side"? Valentine's Day is quite prominent in the Europe, even if not as commercialized to the degree it is in Japan, for example.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - intarga 7y ago
    Just wanted to point out that Valentines day is originally a European tradition.
    - xxs 7y ago
      Indeed, the 'tradition'/origin has the roots somewhere down the Roman Empire, 3rd century. Now it has been commercialized to a high degree. My point was something like: take US holidays grade on the scale 1-10; Christmas 10, Halloween, Thanksgiving Day - 9, 4th of July, New Year - 8.... Valentine's Day - 4, Memorial Day - 2. (not all rated, obviously) Germany - barely registers as anything; Spain, Sweden, Estonia - not a thing at all. There might be promotions, advertising, etc. but it's not an engraved thing for the decision to matter the date/proximity of Valentine's Day.
bouke 7y ago
Website hijacks my back button in Safari. Is there something that can be done to prevent this?
- eitland 7y ago
  Disable Javascript?
- mbesto 7y ago
  Simple. Stop clicking on TechCrunch links.
- dao- 7y ago
  I know we (Mozilla) are working on fixing this in Firefox: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1515073 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1515073 You may want to check Apple's bug tracker, they likely have an open issue on this already.
  - heartbeats 7y ago
    It would be a better idea to block ads served from such sites, or to even send punitive requests.
    - dao- 7y ago
      It's possible Firefox already does that via its enabled-by-default tracking protection. At least I don't seem to have an issue with the back button here.
      - heartbeats 7y ago
        Fixing the bug only fixes it for Firefox users, but disincentivizing it fixes it for everyone. For me, uMatrix blocks it; it redirects through https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers. I could disable it or go through IA or whatever, but I really haven't the patience to deal with these websites.
epixcz 7y ago
EU doesn't want me to find a girl, how sad :/ still thinks this could be much more usable than what become of Tinder, especially when there is no filters, which when you live near border could be sometimes really bad. Not that I have something against other nations, it's just convenient to look only for locals.
classified 7y ago
Comments from FB are boatloads of bullshit, as expected. How nice to see that not everybody lets themselves get fucked over by them as a matter of course, like in the US. Cheers to Ireland.
- sneak 7y ago
  The only people being fucked over here are consumers who are being denied free choice in the list of services they might voluntarily use. I hate surveillance as much as anyone, but it's hard to see how it might be a good thing that someone's website launch is being censored by the state.
  - hobs 7y ago
    Insert comment about how asbestos removal only fucked over consumer choice. If you cant meet basics of compliance, dont be surprised that your website that is a giant trove of personal information is regulated.
    - logicchains 7y ago
      Asbestos apparently kills 255,000 people annually (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5982039/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5982039/). How many people has Facebook killed? "Asbestos killed millions of people, and I don't like Facebook, so we should treat Facebook the same as asbestos" is not a valid argument.
      - hobs 7y ago
        Nobody made the claim we should treat fb the same as asbestos - I didn't say we should ban using it from all places, or that it causes cancer or w/e. If your business has something that causes externalities and you dont pay for them, the government is going to(hopefully!) regulate you from screwing the rest of us over, or selling dangerous products to consumers for cheaper because of "choice". If you claim that choice is impacted and that's a bad thing you actually need to prove the counter claim - that the activity you are doing is SO IMPORTANT to us as a society its worth going around our standard operating procedures.
stared 7y ago
There are various takes on that, which of course depend on values each person (and country) considers as the most important. In my personal opinion, Europe (in which I live) as an "Amish bias" [1], i.e. by default being more cautious about introducing new technologies. I am already annoyed by the constant cookie pop-ups that significantly affect my browsing experience but on mobile. Yes, there are risks with all technologies. But with the current mindset, Europe is setting itself way back comparing to the USA... which is much more cautious than China. Or in other words, Europe sets itself to be the World's calm countryside, in which people live as they used to. Some (maybe even the majority) may like it. Personally, I am asking myself from time to time - when it is time to move to Asia. [1] https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/ https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/
- devilmoon 7y ago
  How is Europe setting itself back compared to other superpowers? If anything, by enforcing privacy by design and default it is setting itself up to become the best place on earth to live if you give any value to your personal information
- tyfon 7y ago
  In Norwegian this is called "Føre var prinsippet" or the precautionary principle [1]. This does not apply only to tech but to everything and I personally think it is a good idea to not barge into something without considering it. We've done so much damage in the past by acting before thinking. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle
  - jariel 7y ago
    "We've done so much damage in the past by acting before thinking." Where has this happened in Social Media? Where is the EU's evidence that FB/Inta etc. have launched products that have caused individual, social harm? We require 'lighting equipment' to be approved ahead of time because people could get shocked and die otherwise. There's no such risk in social media products. What's more, that the EU is being more conservative here, in no way implies that it's citizens are actually 'safer'. For example, the OP's point about cookie notices: they have not materially changed anything other than creating a UI headache. Nobody has changed their behavior due to this notice. In retrospect, there are perhaps other ways this should have been implemented. The EU should make regulations where harm is a real possibility, and ensure that companies are adhering to such laws, but that's a far cry from companies having to provide every country notice ahead of time of product features and services. Every product or service involves the management of at least some kind of personal information, is Ireland prepared to 'review' every feature of every little startups SaaS app, or of the millions of niche little social apps? No. Better to hire some people to investigate claims and breaches of privacy, and to develop good laws.
ipsi 7y ago
Slight tangent, but it seems that TechCrunch are also quite bad at privacy - following the link initially redirects to https://guce.techcrunch.com/consent?brandType=nonEU&done=https%3A%2F%2Ftechcrunch%2Ecom%2F2020%2F02%2F13%2Ffacebook%2Ddating%2Dlaunch%2Dblocked%2Din%2Deurope%2Dafter%2Dit%2Dfails%2Dto%2Dshow%2Dprivacy%2Dworkings%2F&gcrumb={{CRUMB} https://guce.techcrunch.com/consent?brandType=nonEU&done=htt...} with a 307, which, when followed redirects to https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers?sessionId=3_cc-session_{{GUID} https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers?sessionId=3_...} with a 302. I like that the "consent" URL doesn't actually ask for consent - it just immediately redirects to "collect identifiers" - it's possible they already assume they have my consent, but since this was checked with a cookie-less cURL command, that seems unlikely. Since my adblocker is blocking the guce.advertising.com domain, I guess I don't get to visit TechCrunch.
- HenryBemis 7y ago
  I got 18 hits on PrivacyBadger, 12 his on NoScript, 19 hits on AdBlockPlus. I configure all 3 manually, and every now and then I check them to see if there is anything new in the ad/tracking domain, and block it immediately. I don't know what my HOSTS file is blocking, but I assume it also cuts off some of the ads/trackers.
  - akuji1993 7y ago
    Just fyi Adblock Plus has an Acceptable Ads program [1], so you will still get ads, only the ad providers paid Adblock to get through. If you actually want all ads blocked, I'd suggest Raymond Hill's uBlock Origin [2]. [1] https://help.getadblock.com/support/solutions/articles/6000092027-about-the-acceptable-ads-program-and-non-intrusive-ads https://help.getadblock.com/support/solutions/articles/60000... [2] https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock
    - nottorp 7y ago
      Just for the record, uBlock Origin already seems to block 2 items when opening just the consent form. Since I never got farther than that on <whatever yahoo calls their privacy non-consent tech this week>, I don't know how much it blocks later.
bilekas 7y ago
Ireland has a lot of strange relationships with large tech companies, but I can say for sure, we have some great data protection laws. Genuinely delighted that some people pay attention to these things and know what they're talking about.
- F30 7y ago
  Laws maybe, though these are set at the EU level (and one might argue about the greatness of GDPR). Still, the rest of the EU (or at least Germany) is quite unhappy with the enforcement of these laws in Ireland. It is absurd that the Irish Data Protection Commissioner is supposed to control the privacy of most larger tech corporations for the whole EU. A few years ago, they only had 22 employees and their only office was literally co-located with a supermarket in the suburbs [1]. They got a second office since then and apparently are now at around 100 employees [2], but that is still quite small if you have to control giants like Google, Facebook and more. So, from the outside it looks like Ireland's "strange relationships" also include privacy matters. [1] https://www.gutjahr.biz/2012/07/facebook-eu-datenschutz/ https://www.gutjahr.biz/2012/07/facebook-eu-datenschutz/ [2] https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/news-media/press-releases/dpc-publishes-annual-report-25-may-31-december-2018 https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/news-media/press-releases/d...
  - tpmx 7y ago
    This stuff should be handled at a union level. Seems like low-hanging fruit to me. As in: I don't think many EU citizens would object to having this being taken from the national level to the union level. Create a single, strong EU data protection authority, placed somewhere in the union, after the typical competition. I'd suggest Sweden, but would also be happy with Denmark, Germany or the Netherlands.
    - DavidHm 7y ago
      No, but the Ireland government would surely object, because their cozy and soft relationship / taxes agreement with the tech giants is the only thing that's keeping them in Ireland.
ecmascript 7y ago
It feels wierd to read an american article that uses word like 'fuck you' and 'fucked up'. I kind of like the brutal honesty of the word usage.
ryanmercer 7y ago
It was garbage anyway. I used it briefly during the first week it launched in the United States and, at least here in Indy, about every fourth girl was blatantly in a relationship. Some even had kissy-face wedding photos in their profiles. Facebook only gives you the option if your profile is set to single but that's just a toggle. That first week it was also already full of blatantly fake profiles. You're telling me there are three women that look identical to Kevin Smith's daughter and just happened to be at the same red carpet event, with the same dress, in the exact same pose? And then despite me having it set to female it showed me several men that I'm 99% certain were not trans and were either idiots and set their Facebook profile up wrong, or intentionally input things wrong to try and obfuscate their data profile. It also made the promise (I think they did anyway) of not showing you people you were friends with. It didn't, but it did show me a bunch of my graduating class from 16 years prior and gobs of friends of friends. I saw considerably more people on it that I knew/knew of than I ever did with Tinder/OkCupid/Bumble.
- skocznymroczny 7y ago
  So on par with Tinder?
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
throwawaymanbot 7y ago
Facepuke arrogance strikes again!
templain 7y ago
The ultimate space for 30+ roasties that want to settle down after riding the cock carousel for years
stevespang 7y ago
As stated in the article:" Which is either extremely careless or, well, an intentional fuck you to privacy oversight of its data-mining activities. . . . . ". I vote the latter.
pmlnr 7y ago
Only one week and regulatory forces managed to push back?! I wonder when someone from the same regulatory forces will help Ruben out: https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/ https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/ He's been waiting for over a year now for his actual dataset - fighting for us all.
- aneutron 7y ago
  That is one beautiful snarky back-and-forth with Facebook. Thanks for linking this amazing project.
  - btrettel 7y ago
    The snark isn't helping him as far as I'm concerned. I've filed a couple dozen FOIA requests and I would never write anything like he did. I would consider FOIA requests to be similar because the agency you're requesting information from typically doesn't want to give it up. Ruben would do well to cut the snark and figure out which regulator he needs to contact. I've had quite a few FOIA requests not get anywhere until I file an appeal. I don't think appeals exist in the GDPR, so contacting a regulator is the next best thing. Ruben has kept reasonable documentation so hopefully it'll be easy for a regulator to send some inquiries to Facebook that could get the request fulfilled.
    - amiantos 7y ago
      The snark shouldn't be harming him, so it doesn't matter if it isn't helping him. You can be snarky all you want. If someone is breaking the law, they're not suddenly allowed to do it just because the person calling them out on it did so in an insulting way. This sort of thing is essentially victim blaming: "Well, why didn't you ask them more nicely? Don't you want to get what you are legally owed?" Come on now.
      - frereubu 7y ago
        Technically correct. But I think the parent comment was pointing out that, given the way the world is, he's more likely to get his information if he cuts out what feels like grandstanding.
magwa101 7y ago
Finally, some sanity applied.
timwaagh 7y ago
I'm personally thinking it's sad such resources and effort are expended over something as frivolous as a dating app. If there are significant irregularities it's better to just fine them a couple of billion later. Better for the wallet, too.
- Xylakant 7y ago
  When Ashley Madison leaked their entire dataset, not only marriages were in peril, but some people did fear for their lives: LGBQT+ people from states that prosecute people for sexual orientations that deviate from cis. And even in Germany, I could see that some closeted people would feel threatened by having their sexual orientation exposed by a leak. Dating apps handle data related to what many regard one of the most intimate parts of our identities. You and me, we might not care if our dating habits were exposed, but other people do. So dating apps needs to show that they're up to par.
- cstross 7y ago
  Not better for anyone who ends up being stalked and/or raped as a result of a badly monitored/regulated dating app, though. There's a public safety issue here: dating requires interpersonal negotiation for personal intimacy with consent, which in turn implies that a dating app needs to be "safe space". Facebook is notorious for leaking personal information to third parties (typically but not always advertisers). I have no knowledge of specific risks associated with Facebook's dating app, but the precautionary principle should apply in those cases where personal safety is at risk, and the sheer scale on which Facebook operates means that a dating app backed by the big F needs oversight. Luckily, GDPR FTW.
- flamtap 7y ago
  Isn't that what they've been accustomed to all this time?
- CathedralBorrow 7y ago
  Why is a dating app frivolous?
- johannes1234321 7y ago
cco 7y ago
Are they going after the 40+ dating market? Surely the dating app demographic isn't on Facebook anymore, though maybe Facebook is still popular in the 18-30 age range in Europe? I just don't know.
- Milner08 7y ago
  In the UK its certainly not popular with the late 20's crowd. There are still some people hanging on in there but most people seem to have (thankfully) given up on it for anything other than messages and the occasional event.
AsusFan 7y ago
Clickbait headline. Facebook was not "blocked" - they voluntarily halted the rollout of the feature themselves. NOBODY told them to do this. Reading between the lines, someone at Facebook's legal department was asleep at the wheel and forgot to provide the authorities with the required documentation. The DPC nudged them a bit and Facebook hit the panic button.
- andylynch 7y ago
  A raid on their offices is perhaps a bit more than a nudge?
  - TeMPOraL 7y ago
    A Klingon nudge, then.
- pavel_lishin 7y ago
  > Facebook was not "blocked" - they voluntarily halted the rollout of the feature themselves. NOBODY told them to do this. It sure sounds like the DPC told them to: > the Irish Data Protection Commission (DPC) — using inspection and document seizure powers set out in Section 130 of the country’s Data Protection Act — had sent agents to Facebook’s Dublin office seeking documentation that Facebook had failed to provide. That's like saying that I voluntarily left someone's premises after the police told me to leave before I got arrested for tresspassing.
- supercanuck 7y ago
  Facebook was inspected. Facebook didn't submit documentation Facebook decides not to release the product. Meat Packing Plant Inspected Meat packing Plant doesn't submit required documentation Meat Parking Plant ceases operating. *Seems blocked is a reasonable term in my mind.
- tripzilch 7y ago
  That's how the EU works. You get a warning/advisory, and then you're expected to do the right thing. If they hadn't done this voluntarily, THEN they would have been fined. We try to regulate before it goes wrong, instead of running after them. It works better that way. But if you want to believe that FB voluntarily halted the rollout of the feature, for no other reason that they believed it fell short of privacy guarantees ... Yeah no. FB couldn't give a shit about that, without external motivation.
paulie_a 7y ago
I am on several dating apps and there is now way in hell I would ever use Facebook dating. It used to be called the poke function anyways.
jmnicolas 7y ago
What's up with the F word being liberally used in the article ? oO
- parliament32 7y ago
  Liberally? It appears twice, I honestly didn't even notice first read-through.
- tripzilch 7y ago
  oh no my sensibilities
- thunkshift1 7y ago
  Techcrunch has a hard on fb since long
6510 7y ago
I got this sinister mental picture of a facebook human farming department trying to add a breeding sub div.

355 points by ajaviaad 7y ago

It's Facebook after all, so of course there is no privacy there. Imagine using this service and with their total lack of privacy and having your preferences spilled out. Same as putting them on a billboard.

jka 7y ago
What could be worse is if the same patterns and culture of allowing targeting and monetization carry over to Facebook Dating from the rest of the Facebook platform and organization. Combined with romance scams[0], it seems possible that Facebook Dating would provide narcissists, manipulators and fraudsters with a lucrative marketplace to operate in. [0] - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51459517 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51459517
- Fernicia 7y ago
  This is basically a Nigerian prince fraud. What's new?
londons_explore 7y ago
> Same as putting them on a billboard. I don't really understand why services like these don't drop the pretense of keeping your private data private, and instead simply say "anything you write on our website will be published online publicly". While there might be some user backlash, I don't think it would be that big, and would meet all the laws and regulations.
- g_p 7y ago
  Interestingly, this might not necessarily comply with GDPR Article 25 (2): > The controller shall implement appropriate technical and organisational measures for ensuring that, by default, only personal data which are necessary for each specific purpose of the processing are processed. That obligation applies to the amount of personal data collected, the extent of their processing, the period of their storage and their accessibility. In particular, such measures shall ensure that by default personal data are not made accessible without the individual’s intervention to an indefinite number of natural persons. The intent appears to be to prevent a scenario where personal data is "shared publicly" by default. Given the broad definition of "personal data" and the underlying principle of "privacy by default", it seems likely to me that a "default-to-public" sharing system would be non-compliant.
heartbeats 7y ago
To be fair, it's somewhat more justified for dating. Doing creepy psychological profiling to sell me ads for a few extra shekels? Very dodgy. Doing creepy psychological profiling to find matches with traits neither party would otherwise voluntarily disclose on a public profile? I mean, yeah, sure. It's not the case that people are concerned over Facebook having their innermost desires stored on some server somewhere, although they like to pretend so. The issue is more along the lines of whether natural persons they interact with IRL see them - this is why people are OK with using Tinder and Facebook messenger, but not with having private conversations over Twitter. Of course, they'll use the profiling for both. But the end user arguably extracts more of the value than they do from getting sold more relevant ads.
- chrisseaton 7y ago
  > Doing creepy psychological profiling to sell me ads for a few extra shekels? Is this antisemetic? Why did you say shekels rather than dollars?
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - Konnstann 7y ago
    shekels is more fun to say than dollars, that's why I use it. Currency is interchangeable, so why not?
    - chrisseaton 7y ago
      > so why not? Because there's a slur going back millennia against the Jewish people persecuting them as conspiring money-grabbers, and Zuckerberg has Jewish heritage and you were accusing him of being a conspiring money-grabber.
      - dmitriid 7y ago
        I'm of Jewish heritage, I chuckled at the joke. Please stop being offended on behalf of other nations and races.
blaser-waffle 7y ago
Isn't Tinder already linked to a Facebook account? You think those aren't exchanging data somehow?

Zenst 7y ago

Just in time for Valentines day, you just know somebody in marketing will be emoting over this..

xxs 7y ago
The Valentine Day is not a big event at this side of the Atlantic. There is some chance, the marketing has caught up with the younger generation, though.
- mywacaday 7y ago
  Out of interest where are you based, valentines day is huge in Ireland & UK?
- krick 7y ago
  Which side is "this side"? Valentine's Day is quite prominent in the Europe, even if not as commercialized to the degree it is in Japan, for example.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- intarga 7y ago
  Just wanted to point out that Valentines day is originally a European tradition.
  - xxs 7y ago
    Indeed, the 'tradition'/origin has the roots somewhere down the Roman Empire, 3rd century. Now it has been commercialized to a high degree. My point was something like: take US holidays grade on the scale 1-10; Christmas 10, Halloween, Thanksgiving Day - 9, 4th of July, New Year - 8.... Valentine's Day - 4, Memorial Day - 2. (not all rated, obviously) Germany - barely registers as anything; Spain, Sweden, Estonia - not a thing at all. There might be promotions, advertising, etc. but it's not an engraved thing for the decision to matter the date/proximity of Valentine's Day.

bouke 7y ago

Website hijacks my back button in Safari. Is there something that can be done to prevent this?

eitland 7y ago
Disable Javascript?
mbesto 7y ago
Simple. Stop clicking on TechCrunch links.
dao- 7y ago
I know we (Mozilla) are working on fixing this in Firefox: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1515073 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1515073 You may want to check Apple's bug tracker, they likely have an open issue on this already.
- heartbeats 7y ago
  It would be a better idea to block ads served from such sites, or to even send punitive requests.
  - dao- 7y ago
    It's possible Firefox already does that via its enabled-by-default tracking protection. At least I don't seem to have an issue with the back button here.
    - heartbeats 7y ago
      Fixing the bug only fixes it for Firefox users, but disincentivizing it fixes it for everyone. For me, uMatrix blocks it; it redirects through https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers. I could disable it or go through IA or whatever, but I really haven't the patience to deal with these websites.

epixcz 7y ago

EU doesn't want me to find a girl, how sad :/ still thinks this could be much more usable than what become of Tinder, especially when there is no filters, which when you live near border could be sometimes really bad. Not that I have something against other nations, it's just convenient to look only for locals.

classified 7y ago

Comments from FB are boatloads of bullshit, as expected. How nice to see that not everybody lets themselves get fucked over by them as a matter of course, like in the US. Cheers to Ireland.

sneak 7y ago
The only people being fucked over here are consumers who are being denied free choice in the list of services they might voluntarily use. I hate surveillance as much as anyone, but it's hard to see how it might be a good thing that someone's website launch is being censored by the state.
- hobs 7y ago
  Insert comment about how asbestos removal only fucked over consumer choice. If you cant meet basics of compliance, dont be surprised that your website that is a giant trove of personal information is regulated.
  - logicchains 7y ago
    Asbestos apparently kills 255,000 people annually (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5982039/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5982039/). How many people has Facebook killed? "Asbestos killed millions of people, and I don't like Facebook, so we should treat Facebook the same as asbestos" is not a valid argument.
    - hobs 7y ago
      Nobody made the claim we should treat fb the same as asbestos - I didn't say we should ban using it from all places, or that it causes cancer or w/e. If your business has something that causes externalities and you dont pay for them, the government is going to(hopefully!) regulate you from screwing the rest of us over, or selling dangerous products to consumers for cheaper because of "choice". If you claim that choice is impacted and that's a bad thing you actually need to prove the counter claim - that the activity you are doing is SO IMPORTANT to us as a society its worth going around our standard operating procedures.

stared 7y ago

There are various takes on that, which of course depend on values each person (and country) considers as the most important. In my personal opinion, Europe (in which I live) as an "Amish bias" [1], i.e. by default being more cautious about introducing new technologies. I am already annoyed by the constant cookie pop-ups that significantly affect my browsing experience but on mobile. Yes, there are risks with all technologies. But with the current mindset, Europe is setting itself way back comparing to the USA... which is much more cautious than China. Or in other words, Europe sets itself to be the World's calm countryside, in which people live as they used to. Some (maybe even the majority) may like it. Personally, I am asking myself from time to time - when it is time to move to Asia. [1] https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/ https://kk.org/thetechnium/amish-hackers-a/

devilmoon 7y ago
How is Europe setting itself back compared to other superpowers? If anything, by enforcing privacy by design and default it is setting itself up to become the best place on earth to live if you give any value to your personal information
tyfon 7y ago
In Norwegian this is called "Føre var prinsippet" or the precautionary principle [1]. This does not apply only to tech but to everything and I personally think it is a good idea to not barge into something without considering it. We've done so much damage in the past by acting before thinking. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precautionary_principle
- jariel 7y ago
  "We've done so much damage in the past by acting before thinking." Where has this happened in Social Media? Where is the EU's evidence that FB/Inta etc. have launched products that have caused individual, social harm? We require 'lighting equipment' to be approved ahead of time because people could get shocked and die otherwise. There's no such risk in social media products. What's more, that the EU is being more conservative here, in no way implies that it's citizens are actually 'safer'. For example, the OP's point about cookie notices: they have not materially changed anything other than creating a UI headache. Nobody has changed their behavior due to this notice. In retrospect, there are perhaps other ways this should have been implemented. The EU should make regulations where harm is a real possibility, and ensure that companies are adhering to such laws, but that's a far cry from companies having to provide every country notice ahead of time of product features and services. Every product or service involves the management of at least some kind of personal information, is Ireland prepared to 'review' every feature of every little startups SaaS app, or of the millions of niche little social apps? No. Better to hire some people to investigate claims and breaches of privacy, and to develop good laws.

ipsi 7y ago

Slight tangent, but it seems that TechCrunch are also quite bad at privacy - following the link initially redirects to https://guce.techcrunch.com/consent?brandType=nonEU&done=https%3A%2F%2Ftechcrunch%2Ecom%2F2020%2F02%2F13%2Ffacebook%2Ddating%2Dlaunch%2Dblocked%2Din%2Deurope%2Dafter%2Dit%2Dfails%2Dto%2Dshow%2Dprivacy%2Dworkings%2F&gcrumb={{CRUMB} https://guce.techcrunch.com/consent?brandType=nonEU&done=htt...} with a 307, which, when followed redirects to https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers?sessionId=3_cc-session_{{GUID} https://guce.advertising.com/collectIdentifiers?sessionId=3_...} with a 302. I like that the "consent" URL doesn't actually ask for consent - it just immediately redirects to "collect identifiers" - it's possible they already assume they have my consent, but since this was checked with a cookie-less cURL command, that seems unlikely. Since my adblocker is blocking the guce.advertising.com domain, I guess I don't get to visit TechCrunch.

HenryBemis 7y ago
I got 18 hits on PrivacyBadger, 12 his on NoScript, 19 hits on AdBlockPlus. I configure all 3 manually, and every now and then I check them to see if there is anything new in the ad/tracking domain, and block it immediately. I don't know what my HOSTS file is blocking, but I assume it also cuts off some of the ads/trackers.
- akuji1993 7y ago
  Just fyi Adblock Plus has an Acceptable Ads program [1], so you will still get ads, only the ad providers paid Adblock to get through. If you actually want all ads blocked, I'd suggest Raymond Hill's uBlock Origin [2]. [1] https://help.getadblock.com/support/solutions/articles/6000092027-about-the-acceptable-ads-program-and-non-intrusive-ads https://help.getadblock.com/support/solutions/articles/60000... [2] https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock
  - nottorp 7y ago
    Just for the record, uBlock Origin already seems to block 2 items when opening just the consent form. Since I never got farther than that on <whatever yahoo calls their privacy non-consent tech this week>, I don't know how much it blocks later.

bilekas 7y ago

Ireland has a lot of strange relationships with large tech companies, but I can say for sure, we have some great data protection laws. Genuinely delighted that some people pay attention to these things and know what they're talking about.

F30 7y ago
Laws maybe, though these are set at the EU level (and one might argue about the greatness of GDPR). Still, the rest of the EU (or at least Germany) is quite unhappy with the enforcement of these laws in Ireland. It is absurd that the Irish Data Protection Commissioner is supposed to control the privacy of most larger tech corporations for the whole EU. A few years ago, they only had 22 employees and their only office was literally co-located with a supermarket in the suburbs [1]. They got a second office since then and apparently are now at around 100 employees [2], but that is still quite small if you have to control giants like Google, Facebook and more. So, from the outside it looks like Ireland's "strange relationships" also include privacy matters. [1] https://www.gutjahr.biz/2012/07/facebook-eu-datenschutz/ https://www.gutjahr.biz/2012/07/facebook-eu-datenschutz/ [2] https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/news-media/press-releases/dpc-publishes-annual-report-25-may-31-december-2018 https://www.dataprotection.ie/en/news-media/press-releases/d...
- tpmx 7y ago
  This stuff should be handled at a union level. Seems like low-hanging fruit to me. As in: I don't think many EU citizens would object to having this being taken from the national level to the union level. Create a single, strong EU data protection authority, placed somewhere in the union, after the typical competition. I'd suggest Sweden, but would also be happy with Denmark, Germany or the Netherlands.
  - DavidHm 7y ago
    No, but the Ireland government would surely object, because their cozy and soft relationship / taxes agreement with the tech giants is the only thing that's keeping them in Ireland.

ecmascript 7y ago

It feels wierd to read an american article that uses word like 'fuck you' and 'fucked up'. I kind of like the brutal honesty of the word usage.

ryanmercer 7y ago

It was garbage anyway. I used it briefly during the first week it launched in the United States and, at least here in Indy, about every fourth girl was blatantly in a relationship. Some even had kissy-face wedding photos in their profiles. Facebook only gives you the option if your profile is set to single but that's just a toggle. That first week it was also already full of blatantly fake profiles. You're telling me there are three women that look identical to Kevin Smith's daughter and just happened to be at the same red carpet event, with the same dress, in the exact same pose? And then despite me having it set to female it showed me several men that I'm 99% certain were not trans and were either idiots and set their Facebook profile up wrong, or intentionally input things wrong to try and obfuscate their data profile. It also made the promise (I think they did anyway) of not showing you people you were friends with. It didn't, but it did show me a bunch of my graduating class from 16 years prior and gobs of friends of friends. I saw considerably more people on it that I knew/knew of than I ever did with Tinder/OkCupid/Bumble.

skocznymroczny 7y ago
So on par with Tinder?

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

throwawaymanbot 7y ago

Facepuke arrogance strikes again!

templain 7y ago

The ultimate space for 30+ roasties that want to settle down after riding the cock carousel for years

stevespang 7y ago

As stated in the article:" Which is either extremely careless or, well, an intentional fuck you to privacy oversight of its data-mining activities. . . . . ". I vote the latter.

pmlnr 7y ago

Only one week and regulatory forces managed to push back?! I wonder when someone from the same regulatory forces will help Ruben out: https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/ https://ruben.verborgh.org/facebook/ He's been waiting for over a year now for his actual dataset - fighting for us all.

aneutron 7y ago
That is one beautiful snarky back-and-forth with Facebook. Thanks for linking this amazing project.
- btrettel 7y ago
  The snark isn't helping him as far as I'm concerned. I've filed a couple dozen FOIA requests and I would never write anything like he did. I would consider FOIA requests to be similar because the agency you're requesting information from typically doesn't want to give it up. Ruben would do well to cut the snark and figure out which regulator he needs to contact. I've had quite a few FOIA requests not get anywhere until I file an appeal. I don't think appeals exist in the GDPR, so contacting a regulator is the next best thing. Ruben has kept reasonable documentation so hopefully it'll be easy for a regulator to send some inquiries to Facebook that could get the request fulfilled.
  - amiantos 7y ago
    The snark shouldn't be harming him, so it doesn't matter if it isn't helping him. You can be snarky all you want. If someone is breaking the law, they're not suddenly allowed to do it just because the person calling them out on it did so in an insulting way. This sort of thing is essentially victim blaming: "Well, why didn't you ask them more nicely? Don't you want to get what you are legally owed?" Come on now.
    - frereubu 7y ago
      Technically correct. But I think the parent comment was pointing out that, given the way the world is, he's more likely to get his information if he cuts out what feels like grandstanding.

magwa101 7y ago

Finally, some sanity applied.

timwaagh 7y ago

I'm personally thinking it's sad such resources and effort are expended over something as frivolous as a dating app. If there are significant irregularities it's better to just fine them a couple of billion later. Better for the wallet, too.

Xylakant 7y ago
When Ashley Madison leaked their entire dataset, not only marriages were in peril, but some people did fear for their lives: LGBQT+ people from states that prosecute people for sexual orientations that deviate from cis. And even in Germany, I could see that some closeted people would feel threatened by having their sexual orientation exposed by a leak. Dating apps handle data related to what many regard one of the most intimate parts of our identities. You and me, we might not care if our dating habits were exposed, but other people do. So dating apps needs to show that they're up to par.
cstross 7y ago
Not better for anyone who ends up being stalked and/or raped as a result of a badly monitored/regulated dating app, though. There's a public safety issue here: dating requires interpersonal negotiation for personal intimacy with consent, which in turn implies that a dating app needs to be "safe space". Facebook is notorious for leaking personal information to third parties (typically but not always advertisers). I have no knowledge of specific risks associated with Facebook's dating app, but the precautionary principle should apply in those cases where personal safety is at risk, and the sheer scale on which Facebook operates means that a dating app backed by the big F needs oversight. Luckily, GDPR FTW.
flamtap 7y ago
Isn't that what they've been accustomed to all this time?
CathedralBorrow 7y ago
Why is a dating app frivolous?
johannes1234321 7y ago

cco 7y ago

Are they going after the 40+ dating market? Surely the dating app demographic isn't on Facebook anymore, though maybe Facebook is still popular in the 18-30 age range in Europe? I just don't know.

Milner08 7y ago
In the UK its certainly not popular with the late 20's crowd. There are still some people hanging on in there but most people seem to have (thankfully) given up on it for anything other than messages and the occasional event.

AsusFan 7y ago

Clickbait headline. Facebook was not "blocked" - they voluntarily halted the rollout of the feature themselves. NOBODY told them to do this. Reading between the lines, someone at Facebook's legal department was asleep at the wheel and forgot to provide the authorities with the required documentation. The DPC nudged them a bit and Facebook hit the panic button.

andylynch 7y ago
A raid on their offices is perhaps a bit more than a nudge?
- TeMPOraL 7y ago
  A Klingon nudge, then.
pavel_lishin 7y ago
> Facebook was not "blocked" - they voluntarily halted the rollout of the feature themselves. NOBODY told them to do this. It sure sounds like the DPC told them to: > the Irish Data Protection Commission (DPC) — using inspection and document seizure powers set out in Section 130 of the country’s Data Protection Act — had sent agents to Facebook’s Dublin office seeking documentation that Facebook had failed to provide. That's like saying that I voluntarily left someone's premises after the police told me to leave before I got arrested for tresspassing.
supercanuck 7y ago
Facebook was inspected. Facebook didn't submit documentation Facebook decides not to release the product. Meat Packing Plant Inspected Meat packing Plant doesn't submit required documentation Meat Parking Plant ceases operating. *Seems blocked is a reasonable term in my mind.
tripzilch 7y ago
That's how the EU works. You get a warning/advisory, and then you're expected to do the right thing. If they hadn't done this voluntarily, THEN they would have been fined. We try to regulate before it goes wrong, instead of running after them. It works better that way. But if you want to believe that FB voluntarily halted the rollout of the feature, for no other reason that they believed it fell short of privacy guarantees ... Yeah no. FB couldn't give a shit about that, without external motivation.

paulie_a 7y ago

I am on several dating apps and there is now way in hell I would ever use Facebook dating. It used to be called the poke function anyways.

jmnicolas 7y ago

What's up with the F word being liberally used in the article ? oO

parliament32 7y ago
Liberally? It appears twice, I honestly didn't even notice first read-through.
tripzilch 7y ago
oh no my sensibilities
thunkshift1 7y ago
Techcrunch has a hard on fb since long

6510 7y ago

I got this sinister mental picture of a facebook human farming department trying to add a breeding sub div.