3 ms·

With a tinfoil hat on - how do you know the livestream isn't pointed at some fake studio and the real safe hasn't already been tampered with?

by edf13 7y ago

pas 7y ago
You never know, after all maybe your whole life just happens inside a big box (or a small one if you are a simulated/real brain in a vat). But if you accept that it's possible to gain some information, and to basically slowly build up a model of the real, so you can start trusting sources of information, eventually you can build a ceremony model and there are designated witnesses, and designated key-holders. And in theory press should regularly interview them to make sure they are trustful, mentally okay, they are not blackmailed, or otherwise tampered with, and what they say about the process, safe, stream, etc. So in the end it's all about your priors. If you have an almost unmovable belief about we're all just being lied to, then you might never (as in not in <100 years) update to the alternative belief.
mrob 7y ago
I don't know what the IANA is doing, but this is essentially the same problem as verifying election results, with the same solutions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_monitoring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_monitoring
exabrial 7y ago
They could sign a piece of data you provide (pseudo random proof) that they have no control over
sneak 7y ago
The third and fourth and fifth party witnesses/keyholders that aren't part of the safeholders who are present for the ceremony. They verify the fingerprints of the signing keys and such, ensuring that they are using the right keys and cards and that the final product generated then-and-there actually ends up in the zone. Getting all of those people, chosen for trustworthiness and various distribution of national origin, to cooperate with such a fraud conspiracy as you describe is deemed to be sufficiently difficult as to be beyond the means of the organization.
IgorPartola 7y ago
Worst Oceans movie yet.

With a tinfoil hat on - how do you know the livestream isn't pointed at some fake studio and the real safe hasn't already been tampered with?

by edf13 7y ago

With a tinfoil hat on - how do you know the livestream isn't pointed at some fake studio and the real safe hasn't already been tampered with?

pas 7y ago

You never know, after all maybe your whole life just happens inside a big box (or a small one if you are a simulated/real brain in a vat). But if you accept that it's possible to gain some information, and to basically slowly build up a model of the real, so you can start trusting sources of information, eventually you can build a ceremony model and there are designated witnesses, and designated key-holders. And in theory press should regularly interview them to make sure they are trustful, mentally okay, they are not blackmailed, or otherwise tampered with, and what they say about the process, safe, stream, etc. So in the end it's all about your priors. If you have an almost unmovable belief about we're all just being lied to, then you might never (as in not in <100 years) update to the alternative belief.

mrob 7y ago

I don't know what the IANA is doing, but this is essentially the same problem as verifying election results, with the same solutions: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_monitoring https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Election_monitoring

exabrial 7y ago

They could sign a piece of data you provide (pseudo random proof) that they have no control over

sneak 7y ago

The third and fourth and fifth party witnesses/keyholders that aren't part of the safeholders who are present for the ceremony. They verify the fingerprints of the signing keys and such, ensuring that they are using the right keys and cards and that the final product generated then-and-there actually ends up in the zone. Getting all of those people, chosen for trustworthiness and various distribution of national origin, to cooperate with such a fraud conspiracy as you describe is deemed to be sufficiently difficult as to be beyond the means of the organization.

IgorPartola 7y ago

Worst Oceans movie yet.