7 ms·

Basic math and arithmetic are taught. We give people rope and if they hang themselves with it that’s on them.

mattbillenstein 7y ago
Incorrect - 30% of households don't live paycheck to paycheck because "math and arthmetic are taught" -- basic financial literacy isn't even taught at the college level which leads many into school loans they will have a very hard time paying back.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  I'm not sure about that, my impression is a lot of people know they should save for tomorrow but they just aren't very good at resisting the temptations. Just like smokers know smoking is bad for them and the over weight know they shouldn't indulge. If we wanted to do something about it then we need to look at schemes like the UK workplace pensions. It's compulsary for employers and opt-out for employees. It has resulted in many more people saving for retirement.
- hurricanetc 7y ago
  Financial literacy is arithmetic and basic math. Addition of pay, subtraction of monthly expenses. Interest is not difficult to calculate, either. We give everyone the tools they need. If they are still incompetent that is on them. You have to take an online course about understanding student loans and interest before you can accept a federal loan. The idea that students don’t know what they are getting into is absurd.
  - Ghjklov 7y ago
    What people aren't taught is good financial sense and what to prioritize in life. We can't pretend that every child has educated family members to teach them this. And ignoring this means perpetuating a cycle of pain and suffering because the uneducated poor have kids too, and they'll be the ones teaching them how to live their lives. There were no classes that could've prepared me to invest into appreciating asset X instead of depreciating asset Y, which is a trap people fall into far too often to just ignore as a fact of life. There's nothing in the typical school curriculum that could ever teach some people that money should be prioritized toward important needs (housing, good food, etc.) instead of frivolous wants. Especially considering that entire industries are based around trying to part these people from their money year after year. Horrible from an environmental standpoint too. Not saying you're wrong btw, just throwing something out there.
    - hurricanetc 7y ago
      I hear what you are saying but it’s 2020. If you don’t have basic financial literacy it’s because you don’t care. And fundamentally I don’t understand how someone could be short on paying bills every single month and not think to themselves “gee maybe I should search the internet to help solve this repeated problem that I have.” Somehow 33% of people can’t pay their bills every month but smartphone penetration is greater than 66%. How do so many people have access to the entire knowledge of humanity in the palm of their hand but also have not EVER searched on the internet for financial advice?
  - malandrew 7y ago
    I can't help but wonder if everyone downvoting people preaching personal responsibility are also part of the problem. As a society today (in America at least), we're increasingly condemning those preaching personal responsibility in almost every venue, or at least every liberal venue. There's still some push for personal responsibility amongst conservatives. In a way, this appears to be a result of recency bias and our collective forgetting that preaching personal responsibility was once the norm in western societies. While I'm an atheist myself, long before there was any government social safety net, the church provided this safety net, but when it did, that safety net came with the expectation of learning lessons like "God helps those that help themselves". As a society, yes it's important to have empathy for other who have made mistakes. Even Judeo-Christian religion makes room for this lesson through stories like the prodigal son. But you can't just have empathy without accountability unless you're willing to accept that more people will become a burden on the productive than if you have a culture of accountability. You've got to have a balance between both empathy and accountability and squelching voices promoting accountability, but downvoting for example, throws this balance out of whack.
    - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
      >As a society today This isn't new, most religions have something to say about usary. If anything has changed it's the increase in media manipulation, marketing and easy credit. My parents didn't have a credit card because they didn't exist at that time. At an individual level if you are over spending then yes, sort it out. But when half the population can't deal with a financial emergency then the problem is clearly systemic.
    - hurricanetc 7y ago
      People have an excuse for everything while holding all of human knowledge in the palm of their hand. It’s not 1975. All of human knowledge is a few taps away. If you are ignorant on finance it is because you don’t care or don’t want to know. Either way, it’s on the individual.
rezgi 7y ago
That's quite a leap.
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
The trouble is we don't just leave them to it, instead we bombard them with advertising and messaging encouraging them to go out and live beyond their means. You can't justify a laissez faire approach unless you also turn off the propaganda.
- hurricanetc 7y ago
  Self control is on the individual.
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    Looking at these numbers it clearly doesn't exist for a substantial part of the population. Where it does I'd argue it's mostly just habit.
gshdg 7y ago
Financial literacy is far more than math.
- hurricanetc 7y ago
  It really isn’t. You can get into complicated topics but at the core it is simple arithmetic. Addition of what you earn and subtraction of what you spend. Financial literacy is about exercising self control and utilizing skills that are already taught and known.
  - gshdg 7y ago
    Financial literacy includes knowing what various financial instruments are for. Knowing how to think about your budget beyond the expenses that you have every single week or month. Knowing how a credit card works and why that makes it dangerous. Knowing ways to avoid that danger (with or without a credit card). Knowing what a bank account is for and how to open one. Knowing what investing is, why it's a good thing, and where and how to get started with it. Knowing what a credit score is, what goes into it, and why it's important. Those are all important components of financial literacy. They involve knowledge that not everybody is exposed to. Using that knowledge does often require being able to add/subtract/multiply/divide. But while math competency is necessary for successful budgeting and financial management, it is by no means sufficient for either.

Incorrect - 30% of households don't live paycheck to paycheck because "math and arthmetic are taught" -- basic financial literacy isn't even taught at the college level which leads many into school loans they will have a very hard time paying back.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
tonyedgecombe 7y ago
I'm not sure about that, my impression is a lot of people know they should save for tomorrow but they just aren't very good at resisting the temptations. Just like smokers know smoking is bad for them and the over weight know they shouldn't indulge. If we wanted to do something about it then we need to look at schemes like the UK workplace pensions. It's compulsary for employers and opt-out for employees. It has resulted in many more people saving for retirement.
hurricanetc 7y ago
Financial literacy is arithmetic and basic math. Addition of pay, subtraction of monthly expenses. Interest is not difficult to calculate, either. We give everyone the tools they need. If they are still incompetent that is on them. You have to take an online course about understanding student loans and interest before you can accept a federal loan. The idea that students don’t know what they are getting into is absurd.
- Ghjklov 7y ago
  What people aren't taught is good financial sense and what to prioritize in life. We can't pretend that every child has educated family members to teach them this. And ignoring this means perpetuating a cycle of pain and suffering because the uneducated poor have kids too, and they'll be the ones teaching them how to live their lives. There were no classes that could've prepared me to invest into appreciating asset X instead of depreciating asset Y, which is a trap people fall into far too often to just ignore as a fact of life. There's nothing in the typical school curriculum that could ever teach some people that money should be prioritized toward important needs (housing, good food, etc.) instead of frivolous wants. Especially considering that entire industries are based around trying to part these people from their money year after year. Horrible from an environmental standpoint too. Not saying you're wrong btw, just throwing something out there.
  - hurricanetc 7y ago
    I hear what you are saying but it’s 2020. If you don’t have basic financial literacy it’s because you don’t care. And fundamentally I don’t understand how someone could be short on paying bills every single month and not think to themselves “gee maybe I should search the internet to help solve this repeated problem that I have.” Somehow 33% of people can’t pay their bills every month but smartphone penetration is greater than 66%. How do so many people have access to the entire knowledge of humanity in the palm of their hand but also have not EVER searched on the internet for financial advice?
- malandrew 7y ago
  I can't help but wonder if everyone downvoting people preaching personal responsibility are also part of the problem. As a society today (in America at least), we're increasingly condemning those preaching personal responsibility in almost every venue, or at least every liberal venue. There's still some push for personal responsibility amongst conservatives. In a way, this appears to be a result of recency bias and our collective forgetting that preaching personal responsibility was once the norm in western societies. While I'm an atheist myself, long before there was any government social safety net, the church provided this safety net, but when it did, that safety net came with the expectation of learning lessons like "God helps those that help themselves". As a society, yes it's important to have empathy for other who have made mistakes. Even Judeo-Christian religion makes room for this lesson through stories like the prodigal son. But you can't just have empathy without accountability unless you're willing to accept that more people will become a burden on the productive than if you have a culture of accountability. You've got to have a balance between both empathy and accountability and squelching voices promoting accountability, but downvoting for example, throws this balance out of whack.
  - tonyedgecombe 7y ago
    >As a society today This isn't new, most religions have something to say about usary. If anything has changed it's the increase in media manipulation, marketing and easy credit. My parents didn't have a credit card because they didn't exist at that time. At an individual level if you are over spending then yes, sort it out. But when half the population can't deal with a financial emergency then the problem is clearly systemic.
  - hurricanetc 7y ago
    People have an excuse for everything while holding all of human knowledge in the palm of their hand. It’s not 1975. All of human knowledge is a few taps away. If you are ignorant on finance it is because you don’t care or don’t want to know. Either way, it’s on the individual.

rezgi 7y ago

That's quite a leap.

tonyedgecombe 7y ago

The trouble is we don't just leave them to it, instead we bombard them with advertising and messaging encouraging them to go out and live beyond their means. You can't justify a laissez faire approach unless you also turn off the propaganda.

hurricanetc 7y ago
Self control is on the individual.
- tonyedgecombe 7y ago
  Looking at these numbers it clearly doesn't exist for a substantial part of the population. Where it does I'd argue it's mostly just habit.

gshdg 7y ago

Financial literacy is far more than math.

hurricanetc 7y ago
It really isn’t. You can get into complicated topics but at the core it is simple arithmetic. Addition of what you earn and subtraction of what you spend. Financial literacy is about exercising self control and utilizing skills that are already taught and known.
- gshdg 7y ago
  Financial literacy includes knowing what various financial instruments are for. Knowing how to think about your budget beyond the expenses that you have every single week or month. Knowing how a credit card works and why that makes it dangerous. Knowing ways to avoid that danger (with or without a credit card). Knowing what a bank account is for and how to open one. Knowing what investing is, why it's a good thing, and where and how to get started with it. Knowing what a credit score is, what goes into it, and why it's important. Those are all important components of financial literacy. They involve knowledge that not everybody is exposed to. Using that knowledge does often require being able to add/subtract/multiply/divide. But while math competency is necessary for successful budgeting and financial management, it is by no means sufficient for either.