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If the previous justification for hindering a market (that it will figure it out) holds, then yes. You could sabotage the market/product however you see fit, w

If the previous justification for hindering a market (that it will figure it out) holds, then yes. You could sabotage the market/product however you see fit, with the justification that it will get it figured out. It's just not always figured out in the way regulators assume it will be. Assuming that ranchers will want to continue to raise cattle amongst protected wolves is just as irrational.

pvaldes 7y ago
>Assuming that ranchers will want to continue to raise cattle amongst protected wolves is just as irrational. I wonder how humans living amongst wolves could raise and even create all races of cattle in the last 4000 years. This a problem that we had solved yet with shepherds and shepherddogs. You can find people raising three thousands of sheep all alone and just with the help of a few dogs. They never lost a sheep and they live in one of the european areas with more wolves.
- beerandt 7y ago
  We solved it by killing the wolves and making them fear coming near civilization. Reintroducing them undoes that, and if they're going to be a protected species, the same solution that's worked forever no longer will. Different rules, different behavior. And most dogs are primarily to alert people. One on one, a wolf is usually going to win. Packs of dogs evens things out some, but it's not a sure thing. Although if dogs end up being the main protection loophole, I'll be interesting to see if people move towards more aggressive dogs.
  - pvaldes 7y ago
    Not exactly. We solved it teaming with wolves for mutual benefit.
    - beerandt 7y ago
      We're not reintroducing domesticated dogs to the wild. Or are you saying we should redomesticate wolves?
      - pvaldes 7y ago
        We have professionals able to cope with they in the best public benefit. Managing key species as a bussiness only for a minority of the society leads often to lots of money lost for all citizens. We talk of species absolutely necessary for having a healthy ecosystem. Wolves create economic damages but also pay generously for them. They clean lyme, keep cattle diseases under control in wildlife reservoirs, improve pastures and build forests and rivers. Wolf's work literarily create entire biocenosis with decens of new animals linked. In Yellowstone the wolf build from nothing a $5000000/year bussiness in a few years. Those new opportunities attract and fix young human population and put children in some states that need it. Alive wolves trigger a lot of unexpected benefits for both humans and animals. We could never pay its environmental services, or the lifes of humans saved by wolves directly or indirectly But we don't want that money, of course.

pvaldes 7y ago

>Assuming that ranchers will want to continue to raise cattle amongst protected wolves is just as irrational. I wonder how humans living amongst wolves could raise and even create all races of cattle in the last 4000 years. This a problem that we had solved yet with shepherds and shepherddogs. You can find people raising three thousands of sheep all alone and just with the help of a few dogs. They never lost a sheep and they live in one of the european areas with more wolves.

beerandt 7y ago
We solved it by killing the wolves and making them fear coming near civilization. Reintroducing them undoes that, and if they're going to be a protected species, the same solution that's worked forever no longer will. Different rules, different behavior. And most dogs are primarily to alert people. One on one, a wolf is usually going to win. Packs of dogs evens things out some, but it's not a sure thing. Although if dogs end up being the main protection loophole, I'll be interesting to see if people move towards more aggressive dogs.
- pvaldes 7y ago
  Not exactly. We solved it teaming with wolves for mutual benefit.
  - beerandt 7y ago
    We're not reintroducing domesticated dogs to the wild. Or are you saying we should redomesticate wolves?
    - pvaldes 7y ago
      We have professionals able to cope with they in the best public benefit. Managing key species as a bussiness only for a minority of the society leads often to lots of money lost for all citizens. We talk of species absolutely necessary for having a healthy ecosystem. Wolves create economic damages but also pay generously for them. They clean lyme, keep cattle diseases under control in wildlife reservoirs, improve pastures and build forests and rivers. Wolf's work literarily create entire biocenosis with decens of new animals linked. In Yellowstone the wolf build from nothing a $5000000/year bussiness in a few years. Those new opportunities attract and fix young human population and put children in some states that need it. Alive wolves trigger a lot of unexpected benefits for both humans and animals. We could never pay its environmental services, or the lifes of humans saved by wolves directly or indirectly But we don't want that money, of course.