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All these initiatives to help women in tech, make me ponder if the same courtesy is extended to men in fields dominated by women. Is there the same desperation

All these initiatives to help women in tech, make me ponder if the same courtesy is extended to men in fields dominated by women. Is there the same desperation to attract new male recruits? The same incentives? For example, does anyone know of similar initiatives to increase the number of male elementary teachers or nurses?

_delirium 16y ago
There are some initiatives, though they're pretty recent and most are still at the stage where governments have commissioned somebody to study the problem and come back with a report, but not implemented anything. It seems the main ones to be implemented are informal ones, like greater advertising to try to encourage men to enter the teaching profession, and unofficial preferences given to men in hiring, if equally qualified men and women apply for the same position. This paper has a survey of some of the responses: http://eng.kedi.re.kr/upload_data/kedi_jrn/07_Maleteacher.pdf http://eng.kedi.re.kr/upload_data/kedi_jrn/07_Maleteacher.pd...
grhino 16y ago
The organizations, communities behind those female dominated fields need to feel there is a value in increasing their representation of the male perspective. I don't think communities feel that nursing or elementary school teachers are missing out on the male perspective. Society is still exploring how to handle the wide variance in what individual women and men want to do with their lives, what men as a group and women as a group are culturally interested in doing, and what men as a group and women as a group are innately interested in doing.
- yummyfajitas 16y ago
  Apart from a few activists, I don't think computing communities feel we are missing out on a female perspective [1]. But for some reason, this attitude is often a point of criticism by the activists. Why is that? (Incidentally, nursing does need men - a lot of men are uncomfortable having a woman assist them in personal care activities. More male nurses = increased patient satisfaction.) [1] Near as I can tell, the only place we could possibly be missing out is in some UX fields, and even there it seems that empirically-minded men are doing a good job (see: Facebook, Zynga, Apple).
  - sp332 16y ago
    You are definitely suffering from a lack of female perspective :-) Women are raised with different priorities and different habits of mind, different strengths and mental and emotional tools.
    - yummyfajitas 16y ago
      The communities that don't feel male teachers/nurses are important are definitely suffering from a lack of male perspective. That's the point I'm making - the moment you flip the genders in grhino's argument, you immediately get objections. (That said, in general I don't think gender balance matters much. Either women's different priorities/habits/strengths result in them producing good code, or they don't. It's only in unusual cases involving human interaction where it actually matters - e.g., doctors/nurses working on your privates.)
      - grhino 16y ago
        There are organizations that specifically encourage men to join nursing. http://dukechronicle.com/article/duke-receives-recognition-encouraging-male-nurses http://dukechronicle.com/article/duke-receives-recognition-e...
shaggyfrog 16y ago
If you're male and you want to teach, going into elementary education is one of the riskiest choices you can make. Our attitude has a distinctively negative attitude towards males in these domains -- men aren't supposed to want to work with children, and if they are, then they must be perverts and molesters. This attitude has gotten worse and worse over the years. A man being alone with a child is sufficient to cause a panic in a passer-by. And since we've raised children to be increasingly afraid of strangers -- which is another word for men -- we place men in a situation where their entire lives can be ruined by one mischievous child telling one fib. This is the society we've made, and I don't think a few initiatives here and there are going to change this prevailing (and institutional) misconception, at least not for a long time.

_delirium 16y ago

There are some initiatives, though they're pretty recent and most are still at the stage where governments have commissioned somebody to study the problem and come back with a report, but not implemented anything. It seems the main ones to be implemented are informal ones, like greater advertising to try to encourage men to enter the teaching profession, and unofficial preferences given to men in hiring, if equally qualified men and women apply for the same position. This paper has a survey of some of the responses: http://eng.kedi.re.kr/upload_data/kedi_jrn/07_Maleteacher.pdf http://eng.kedi.re.kr/upload_data/kedi_jrn/07_Maleteacher.pd...

grhino 16y ago

The organizations, communities behind those female dominated fields need to feel there is a value in increasing their representation of the male perspective. I don't think communities feel that nursing or elementary school teachers are missing out on the male perspective. Society is still exploring how to handle the wide variance in what individual women and men want to do with their lives, what men as a group and women as a group are culturally interested in doing, and what men as a group and women as a group are innately interested in doing.

yummyfajitas 16y ago
Apart from a few activists, I don't think computing communities feel we are missing out on a female perspective [1]. But for some reason, this attitude is often a point of criticism by the activists. Why is that? (Incidentally, nursing does need men - a lot of men are uncomfortable having a woman assist them in personal care activities. More male nurses = increased patient satisfaction.) [1] Near as I can tell, the only place we could possibly be missing out is in some UX fields, and even there it seems that empirically-minded men are doing a good job (see: Facebook, Zynga, Apple).
- sp332 16y ago
  You are definitely suffering from a lack of female perspective :-) Women are raised with different priorities and different habits of mind, different strengths and mental and emotional tools.
  - yummyfajitas 16y ago
    The communities that don't feel male teachers/nurses are important are definitely suffering from a lack of male perspective. That's the point I'm making - the moment you flip the genders in grhino's argument, you immediately get objections. (That said, in general I don't think gender balance matters much. Either women's different priorities/habits/strengths result in them producing good code, or they don't. It's only in unusual cases involving human interaction where it actually matters - e.g., doctors/nurses working on your privates.)
    - grhino 16y ago
      There are organizations that specifically encourage men to join nursing. http://dukechronicle.com/article/duke-receives-recognition-encouraging-male-nurses http://dukechronicle.com/article/duke-receives-recognition-e...

shaggyfrog 16y ago

If you're male and you want to teach, going into elementary education is one of the riskiest choices you can make. Our attitude has a distinctively negative attitude towards males in these domains -- men aren't supposed to want to work with children, and if they are, then they must be perverts and molesters. This attitude has gotten worse and worse over the years. A man being alone with a child is sufficient to cause a panic in a passer-by. And since we've raised children to be increasingly afraid of strangers -- which is another word for men -- we place men in a situation where their entire lives can be ruined by one mischievous child telling one fib. This is the society we've made, and I don't think a few initiatives here and there are going to change this prevailing (and institutional) misconception, at least not for a long time.