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I thank Tim for all his contributions to gaming and 3D technology but I'm not inclined to listen to this kind of nonsense without a solution to the specific pro

I thank Tim for all his contributions to gaming and 3D technology but I'm not inclined to listen to this kind of nonsense without a solution to the specific problem he's addressing. Yes, there's financial incentive for Google and Apple to have closed store ecosystems but, for the majority of people, those closed, walled gardens are worth it. Tech savvy people do not make up the majority of customers and I think he's being extremely disingenuous to suggest that most users would want to be able to toss away the convenience of these App Stores in exchange for being able to install Fortnite directly from Epic. He only wants that because then he doesn't have to lose money to those companies to do so.

m463 7y ago
The Google - Epic thing aside, having an open market is important. Before App stores became acceptable, the PC market was wide open and there was robust competition. Developers could create any kind of software they wanted. They were free to distribute and sell however made sense, and there was no need to ask for permission. This advanced the state of the art exponentially for decades and decades. Customers reaped the benefits.
- dkonofalski 7y ago
  I think you're overstating the "robustness" of the competition. Finding and installing apps off the internet was and is a nightmare for people that aren't comfortable with technology. To say that it was wide open and robust and that customers reaped the benefits ignores the monopolies that companies like Microsoft and IBM had and the spread of messes like the IE toolbar disasters and the proliferation of anti-virus software that only takes advantage of the ignorance of users. There are benefits to that system but, for most people, the negatives far outweighed the positives.
- dragonsky67 7y ago
  And with the App stores individual developers have access to even more customers than ever before without having to deal with publishing and distribution. In most cases they even gain an easy upgrade system that ensures that their customers will be working with the latest version of their software.
  - m463 7y ago
    That might be true, but sort of secondary to the issue. The developers would have more opportunities if there no barriers to publishing and distribution. For example, if the developer type you are speaking of had access to two app stores, he would benefit from the competition.
- scarface74 7y ago
  And they were also free to install malware, viruses and had no means of micropayments. Customers are not going to willy nilly put their payment information on every random website. If there was some innovative game changing idea that was prevented by app stores why don’t you see it on Android where you can side load?
  - leereeves 7y ago
    > why don’t you see it on Android where you can side load? As you quoted yourself in another comment, because: > Google put up “scary” pop-ups in front of users about the risks of sideloading (viruses, malware)
    - scarface74 7y ago
      Also in my quote, there was a good reason why.....
      - leereeves 7y ago
        Whether that warning is a good idea or not is irrelevant to asking why there aren't any innovative sideloaded apps on Android. In other words, the lack of sideloaded apps on Android is easily explained by the warnings and therefore isn't evidence that closed app stores aren't preventing innovation.
        scarface74 7y ago
        What is the solution? Should Google not put up any warnings?
scarface74 7y ago
I fail to see where “tech Sabine’s” has anything to do with the App Store being an advantage. Epic kind of proved why the App Store is advantageous. They went outside the App Store and distributed an app with security vulnerabilities. How was “tech saviness” going to allow you to know that you were installing a backdoor when you install a game? Even if it were open source were you going to examine all of the code? Are you more likely to set up payments on every random app developers site or just pay through an App Store?

m463 7y ago

The Google - Epic thing aside, having an open market is important. Before App stores became acceptable, the PC market was wide open and there was robust competition. Developers could create any kind of software they wanted. They were free to distribute and sell however made sense, and there was no need to ask for permission. This advanced the state of the art exponentially for decades and decades. Customers reaped the benefits.

dkonofalski 7y ago
I think you're overstating the "robustness" of the competition. Finding and installing apps off the internet was and is a nightmare for people that aren't comfortable with technology. To say that it was wide open and robust and that customers reaped the benefits ignores the monopolies that companies like Microsoft and IBM had and the spread of messes like the IE toolbar disasters and the proliferation of anti-virus software that only takes advantage of the ignorance of users. There are benefits to that system but, for most people, the negatives far outweighed the positives.
dragonsky67 7y ago
And with the App stores individual developers have access to even more customers than ever before without having to deal with publishing and distribution. In most cases they even gain an easy upgrade system that ensures that their customers will be working with the latest version of their software.
- m463 7y ago
  That might be true, but sort of secondary to the issue. The developers would have more opportunities if there no barriers to publishing and distribution. For example, if the developer type you are speaking of had access to two app stores, he would benefit from the competition.
scarface74 7y ago
And they were also free to install malware, viruses and had no means of micropayments. Customers are not going to willy nilly put their payment information on every random website. If there was some innovative game changing idea that was prevented by app stores why don’t you see it on Android where you can side load?
- leereeves 7y ago
  > why don’t you see it on Android where you can side load? As you quoted yourself in another comment, because: > Google put up “scary” pop-ups in front of users about the risks of sideloading (viruses, malware)
  - scarface74 7y ago
    Also in my quote, there was a good reason why.....
    - leereeves 7y ago
      Whether that warning is a good idea or not is irrelevant to asking why there aren't any innovative sideloaded apps on Android. In other words, the lack of sideloaded apps on Android is easily explained by the warnings and therefore isn't evidence that closed app stores aren't preventing innovation.
      - scarface74 7y ago
        What is the solution? Should Google not put up any warnings?

scarface74 7y ago

I fail to see where “tech Sabine’s” has anything to do with the App Store being an advantage. Epic kind of proved why the App Store is advantageous. They went outside the App Store and distributed an app with security vulnerabilities. How was “tech saviness” going to allow you to know that you were installing a backdoor when you install a game? Even if it were open source were you going to examine all of the code? Are you more likely to set up payments on every random app developers site or just pay through an App Store?