4 ms·

I have never corresponded with a Uighur, and certainly never on topics that are sensitive for the Chinese state. Have you?

kube-system 7y ago
I don't see any reason why I would be afforded any more legal protections than they give to their own citizens, do you?
- jessaustin 7y ago
  If you're not in their jurisdiction, or neighboring jurisdictions (I've heard some rumors of events in e.g. Vietnam), they're not going to do anything to you. USA cannot make the same claim.
  - kube-system 7y ago
    Private information can absolutely be used to coerce/blackmail/extort/compromise/propagandize from abroad. It happens many thousands of times every day.
    - jessaustin 7y ago
      I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese state did this and much worse. Governments are evil, film at eleven. However, if this intercontinental extortion were so common, I suspect we would have heard of a single case by now.
      - kube-system 7y ago
        Extortion specifically? How about the Bezos extortion case? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/21/revealed-the-saudi-heir-and-the-alleged-plot-to-undermine-jeff-bezos https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/21/revealed-the-s...
        jessaustin 7y ago
        That link seems to refer to the actions of some other nation, which nation is considered by many foolish people to be an ally of USA. But sure, if I were worth twelve figures and I didn't want my wife to find out about my mistress, I would avoid recording my infidelity on electronic devices.
- owenmarshall 7y ago
  I would assume I am afforded less legal protections than a Chinese citizen! But here's the thing: with the platonic ideal of "civil liberties" in mind that might bother me, but practically speaking? Chinese legal protections or threats have no bearing on me. None whatsoever. I don't have a secret clearance. I don't know anyone who does. I don't know anything of significant value to the Chinese state that they couldn't use their existing sources to steal. My "deepest darkest secrets", at worst, would get me in trouble with my local government. They're not enough of a lever to make me an agent of China. If, however, the information that could get me in trouble with my local government made it to my local government? That might be more of a concern for me. Do you see why I might not care in the slightest what China knows about me, while simultaneously caring a great deal what my local government knows?
  - kube-system 7y ago
    You're only thinking about it in the context of your own personal information, though. There will also be effects on your peers, neighbors, and society around you. There are nation-state actors currently using stolen data for blackmail, extortion, and propaganda campaigns, to influence the economic and political stability of other nations. Whether or not you are a direct target, you will be affected in some way. While you feel much more closely connected to your local government, they are not generally acting out of malice.
    - owenmarshall 7y ago
      Even if I believed you - which I absolutely don’t - it’s completely irrelevant. The intent of my government or of a foreign government has almost zero bearing on my life, for the life of any other average American – someone who does not have a secret clearance, is not committing major felonies, etc. What matters is material condition, and the ability of that government to project force and change a person’s material condition. If Chinese intelligence knows who my weed dealer is, or that I on occasion drive my car faster than the posted speed limit, agents of the MSS aren’t going to tail my car and pull me over. If proof that I’m pirating DVDs hits the great firewall I’m not going to get an email threatening me with legal action. I don’t care if my government really thinks that weed purchases should be illegal or that driving 5 over the speed limit is a societal crisis or that pirating DVDs is a moral wrong: I care that they can project force against me and impact my life.

kube-system 7y ago

I don't see any reason why I would be afforded any more legal protections than they give to their own citizens, do you?

jessaustin 7y ago
If you're not in their jurisdiction, or neighboring jurisdictions (I've heard some rumors of events in e.g. Vietnam), they're not going to do anything to you. USA cannot make the same claim.
- kube-system 7y ago
  Private information can absolutely be used to coerce/blackmail/extort/compromise/propagandize from abroad. It happens many thousands of times every day.
  - jessaustin 7y ago
    I wouldn't be surprised if the Chinese state did this and much worse. Governments are evil, film at eleven. However, if this intercontinental extortion were so common, I suspect we would have heard of a single case by now.
    - kube-system 7y ago
      Extortion specifically? How about the Bezos extortion case? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/21/revealed-the-saudi-heir-and-the-alleged-plot-to-undermine-jeff-bezos https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jan/21/revealed-the-s...
      - jessaustin 7y ago
        That link seems to refer to the actions of some other nation, which nation is considered by many foolish people to be an ally of USA. But sure, if I were worth twelve figures and I didn't want my wife to find out about my mistress, I would avoid recording my infidelity on electronic devices.
owenmarshall 7y ago
I would assume I am afforded less legal protections than a Chinese citizen! But here's the thing: with the platonic ideal of "civil liberties" in mind that might bother me, but practically speaking? Chinese legal protections or threats have no bearing on me. None whatsoever. I don't have a secret clearance. I don't know anyone who does. I don't know anything of significant value to the Chinese state that they couldn't use their existing sources to steal. My "deepest darkest secrets", at worst, would get me in trouble with my local government. They're not enough of a lever to make me an agent of China. If, however, the information that could get me in trouble with my local government made it to my local government? That might be more of a concern for me. Do you see why I might not care in the slightest what China knows about me, while simultaneously caring a great deal what my local government knows?
- kube-system 7y ago
  You're only thinking about it in the context of your own personal information, though. There will also be effects on your peers, neighbors, and society around you. There are nation-state actors currently using stolen data for blackmail, extortion, and propaganda campaigns, to influence the economic and political stability of other nations. Whether or not you are a direct target, you will be affected in some way. While you feel much more closely connected to your local government, they are not generally acting out of malice.
  - owenmarshall 7y ago
    Even if I believed you - which I absolutely don’t - it’s completely irrelevant. The intent of my government or of a foreign government has almost zero bearing on my life, for the life of any other average American – someone who does not have a secret clearance, is not committing major felonies, etc. What matters is material condition, and the ability of that government to project force and change a person’s material condition. If Chinese intelligence knows who my weed dealer is, or that I on occasion drive my car faster than the posted speed limit, agents of the MSS aren’t going to tail my car and pull me over. If proof that I’m pirating DVDs hits the great firewall I’m not going to get an email threatening me with legal action. I don’t care if my government really thinks that weed purchases should be illegal or that driving 5 over the speed limit is a societal crisis or that pirating DVDs is a moral wrong: I care that they can project force against me and impact my life.