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China's intelligence law requires people or companies to spy when asked. >“request relevant organs, organisations, and citizens provide necessary support, assi

by 99_00 7y ago

China's intelligence law requires people or companies to spy when asked. >“request relevant organs, organisations, and citizens provide necessary support, assistance, and cooperation”. According to Article 16, intelligence officials “may enter relevant restricted areas and venues; may learn from and question relevant institutions, organisations, and individuals; and may read or collect relevant files, materials or items” https://www.canada.ca/en/security-intelligence-service/corporate/publications/china-and-the-age-of-strategic-rivalry/chinas-intelligence-law-and-the-countrys-future-intelligence-competitions.html https://www.canada.ca/en/security-intelligence-service/corpo...

dependenttypes 7y ago
Isn't this also pretty much the case with American companies? The only difference is that they need a warrant (which should be pretty easy to get). Anyway, there is a new bill trying to kill e2ee in America https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202110
- kelnos 7y ago
  Yes and no. There are some specific carve-outs for telecom companies that their networks must have the ability to tap into specific traffic when a government agency comes knocking with a warrant. But, as you point out, backdoor-free e2e encryption is not yet illegal, and the US gov't can't force e.g. Apple to put a backdoor in iMessage or in iOS's device encryption. I expect that this is not the case in China; if the CCP tells a company to do something, anything, to allow them to spy on their users, they do it, or they get destroyed. Bills like the EARN IT Act scare the hell out of me, but at least there's a process by which it becomes law, and we can affect that process and (hopefully) kill it. That's just not possible in China.
  - dependenttypes 7y ago
    > and we can affect that process In theory, in the same sense that one could influence what CCP does by becoming a member of it and rising through the ranks.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - JonG123 7y ago
      Why you gotta be so difficult?
ohithereyou 7y ago
Counterpoint: CALEA and National Security Letters in the US.
- CWuestefeld 7y ago
  not to mention recent revelations about how the FBI is gaming and outright misleading in the FISA court process.

by 99_00 7y ago

dependenttypes 7y ago

Isn't this also pretty much the case with American companies? The only difference is that they need a warrant (which should be pretty easy to get). Anyway, there is a new bill trying to kill e2ee in America https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202110 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22202110

kelnos 7y ago
Yes and no. There are some specific carve-outs for telecom companies that their networks must have the ability to tap into specific traffic when a government agency comes knocking with a warrant. But, as you point out, backdoor-free e2e encryption is not yet illegal, and the US gov't can't force e.g. Apple to put a backdoor in iMessage or in iOS's device encryption. I expect that this is not the case in China; if the CCP tells a company to do something, anything, to allow them to spy on their users, they do it, or they get destroyed. Bills like the EARN IT Act scare the hell out of me, but at least there's a process by which it becomes law, and we can affect that process and (hopefully) kill it. That's just not possible in China.
- dependenttypes 7y ago
  > and we can affect that process In theory, in the same sense that one could influence what CCP does by becoming a member of it and rising through the ranks.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - JonG123 7y ago
    Why you gotta be so difficult?

ohithereyou 7y ago

Counterpoint: CALEA and National Security Letters in the US.

CWuestefeld 7y ago
not to mention recent revelations about how the FBI is gaming and outright misleading in the FISA court process.