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Additionally to combat squatting, to register a name, one needs to go thru a Vickrey auction and bid on a name after it is released. Bidding continues for about

Additionally to combat squatting, to register a name, one needs to go thru a Vickrey auction and bid on a name after it is released. Bidding continues for about 5 days thereafter and there are 10 days to reveal the bids. The winner pays the second highest bid.

danShumway 7y ago
Wait, what? That seems like it could have a lot of unintended consequences, to the point of invalidating all of the benefits from having tons and tons of new names. I have a lot of follow questions about the potential for abuse. From the squatter/troll angle: if I'm a troll or I'm trying to steal good names before anyone else can get them, what stops me from monitoring the current auctions and stealing domains by bidding above the statistically most likely market price for that domain? Users have to guess in advance how much a domain will cost? From the decentralized, anti-corporate angle: if I'm Comcast, what stops me from monitoring the current auctions, and blocking anyone who tries to register any variant of `comcastsucks`? With the current system, that's prohibitively expensive since there are tons of variations that I'd need to preemptively register. With the system you're describing, it costs me nothing until someone tries to register a domain that triggers my Regex, and then I just outbid them and block any domain that criticizes me, because as a company I'll always be able to trivially and safely outbid any single person. From a general user angle: does this mean I have to wait 5 days to register a new domain? With the current system, I can set up a brand new website in a single evening, and all I need to do is find a name that isn't taken yet -- I don't have to worry someone else will see what I'm doing and snipe my purchase. With the system you're describing, I have to wait 5 days to discover whether or not I'm actually going to be able to buy the domain I want at all, and if I don't get it, then I need to repeat the entire process? I have so many questions about this system now. There has to be something you're leaving out here. I can't imagine using a DNS registrar that made me wait 5 days to discover whether or not I got to have the domain, or that made me guess how much it would cost at the risk of losing the entire domain. If there aren't other details you're leaving out, that's a strictly worse system than what we have right now.
- troquerre 7y ago
  The auctions are semi-blind. You bid, and can optionally add a blind to your bid. The network sees your combined total bid + blind, but won't know your true bid value until the reveal period. So if you want to guarantee you win an auction, just make sure your bid is greater than the highest existing total.
  - danShumway 7y ago
    > if you want to guarantee you win an auction, just make sure your bid is greater than the highest existing total. How do I do that if other people's bids can contain blinds? How do I know what the highest existing total is -- I still have to guess everyone else's total, right? And even if the auction wasn't partially sealed, even if it was completely public -- I don't see how my concerns above would go away. Isn't it still possible for companies who can trivially outspend anyone else to do regex matches on all of the current auctions and dominate the entire domain space? Don't I still need to wait 5 days to do something that I can do today in less than an hour? Learning about auctions pretty much entirely, just by itself, took me from thinking, "it's not perfect, but it still seems almost universally better than what we have" to, "no, this would be a massive downgrade from our current system." I thought the point was to stop rent-seeking, not to implicitly allow every fortune 500 company and government to personally vet/block every single domain transaction. The auction system being described here doesn't just focus on other problems other than name scarcity, it makes the name scarcity problem way worse. If I'm China and I want to censor this system, what stops me from monitoring the auctions and throwing a measly $2000 at any domain name that sounds critical of me in any way? What's the point of having a distributed or decentralized protocol in that scenario?
    - hpfr 7y ago
      > How do I do that if other people's bids can contain blinds? You're right, you can't. I'm not sure what "just make sure your bid is greater than the highest existing total" means when blinds are in the mix. > If I'm China and I want to censor this system, what stops me from monitoring the auctions and throwing a measly $2000 at any domain name that sounds critical of me in any way? Nothing, but there are quite a few(TM) domain names. Everything that isn't an ICANN TLD (or a future ICANN TLD, I guess--not sure how that would work) is available. I don't think a government could reliably censor all objectionable TLD's. Furthermore, once you own a Handshake TLD, you become the registrar for that TLD. So every subdomain is yours to sell, no auction necessary. So as long as someone purchases some simple TLD and is willing to sell you some relevant subdomain, you're good. It's not really necessary to have censorthis/; you can just buy censorthis.sometld. Of course, then you do depend on the owner of sometld as a registrar, but that's not very significant given the space of TLD's available. It wouldn't be difficult to find a new registrar if something happened.

danShumway 7y ago

Wait, what? That seems like it could have a lot of unintended consequences, to the point of invalidating all of the benefits from having tons and tons of new names. I have a lot of follow questions about the potential for abuse. From the squatter/troll angle: if I'm a troll or I'm trying to steal good names before anyone else can get them, what stops me from monitoring the current auctions and stealing domains by bidding above the statistically most likely market price for that domain? Users have to guess in advance how much a domain will cost? From the decentralized, anti-corporate angle: if I'm Comcast, what stops me from monitoring the current auctions, and blocking anyone who tries to register any variant of `comcastsucks`? With the current system, that's prohibitively expensive since there are tons of variations that I'd need to preemptively register. With the system you're describing, it costs me nothing until someone tries to register a domain that triggers my Regex, and then I just outbid them and block any domain that criticizes me, because as a company I'll always be able to trivially and safely outbid any single person. From a general user angle: does this mean I have to wait 5 days to register a new domain? With the current system, I can set up a brand new website in a single evening, and all I need to do is find a name that isn't taken yet -- I don't have to worry someone else will see what I'm doing and snipe my purchase. With the system you're describing, I have to wait 5 days to discover whether or not I'm actually going to be able to buy the domain I want at all, and if I don't get it, then I need to repeat the entire process? I have so many questions about this system now. There has to be something you're leaving out here. I can't imagine using a DNS registrar that made me wait 5 days to discover whether or not I got to have the domain, or that made me guess how much it would cost at the risk of losing the entire domain. If there aren't other details you're leaving out, that's a strictly worse system than what we have right now.

troquerre 7y ago
The auctions are semi-blind. You bid, and can optionally add a blind to your bid. The network sees your combined total bid + blind, but won't know your true bid value until the reveal period. So if you want to guarantee you win an auction, just make sure your bid is greater than the highest existing total.
- danShumway 7y ago
  > if you want to guarantee you win an auction, just make sure your bid is greater than the highest existing total. How do I do that if other people's bids can contain blinds? How do I know what the highest existing total is -- I still have to guess everyone else's total, right? And even if the auction wasn't partially sealed, even if it was completely public -- I don't see how my concerns above would go away. Isn't it still possible for companies who can trivially outspend anyone else to do regex matches on all of the current auctions and dominate the entire domain space? Don't I still need to wait 5 days to do something that I can do today in less than an hour? Learning about auctions pretty much entirely, just by itself, took me from thinking, "it's not perfect, but it still seems almost universally better than what we have" to, "no, this would be a massive downgrade from our current system." I thought the point was to stop rent-seeking, not to implicitly allow every fortune 500 company and government to personally vet/block every single domain transaction. The auction system being described here doesn't just focus on other problems other than name scarcity, it makes the name scarcity problem way worse. If I'm China and I want to censor this system, what stops me from monitoring the auctions and throwing a measly $2000 at any domain name that sounds critical of me in any way? What's the point of having a distributed or decentralized protocol in that scenario?
  - hpfr 7y ago
    > How do I do that if other people's bids can contain blinds? You're right, you can't. I'm not sure what "just make sure your bid is greater than the highest existing total" means when blinds are in the mix. > If I'm China and I want to censor this system, what stops me from monitoring the auctions and throwing a measly $2000 at any domain name that sounds critical of me in any way? Nothing, but there are quite a few(TM) domain names. Everything that isn't an ICANN TLD (or a future ICANN TLD, I guess--not sure how that would work) is available. I don't think a government could reliably censor all objectionable TLD's. Furthermore, once you own a Handshake TLD, you become the registrar for that TLD. So every subdomain is yours to sell, no auction necessary. So as long as someone purchases some simple TLD and is willing to sell you some relevant subdomain, you're good. It's not really necessary to have censorthis/; you can just buy censorthis.sometld. Of course, then you do depend on the owner of sometld as a registrar, but that's not very significant given the space of TLD's available. It wouldn't be difficult to find a new registrar if something happened.