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I first encountered this kind of shopping center in the suburbs of Philadelphia. Main Street at Exton struck me as incredibly strange - it's a strip mall dresse

I first encountered this kind of shopping center in the suburbs of Philadelphia. Main Street at Exton struck me as incredibly strange - it's a strip mall dressed up to look like an urban downtown, right down to parallel parking spots on the street. Once you do park, it is actually fairly walkable. A couple of years later, after having moved to Philadelphia, there was something I wanted to grab at a store in Main Street at Exton. There's a regional rail station a half mile from the shopping center, so I hopped a train. The absurd thing about this particular arrangement, which otherwise sounds like a great way to connect nearby markets, is that there is no sidewalk between the train station and the shopping center. The station sits where a major local road meets a major highway, so one way or another, you're crossing six lanes of traffic to get past the local road, and you have to cross two major highway four-lane on/off ramps as you go under the highway overpass, walking along a beaten grass path with only a curb between you and the traffic. Exton Mall's another mile up the road, and while there's sporadic sidewalks between the two malls, I've never bothered with that walk. Given the proximity of this shopping center to public transit, I don't think it's a big leap to suggest that the decision to exclude sidewalks was at best a classist choice, at worst a racist choice. I live in a part of Philadelphia that's unusually pedestrian friendly, all things considered. I can walk to pick up groceries (except I get those delivered), the hardware store, coffee shops, restaurants, galleries, all manner of everyday things that, when I lived in the exurbs, I had to hop in the car and drive anywhere from 5-30 minutes to get to, and it's fantastic. We've also got more methods of public transit than almost anywhere in the world (not saying the coverage is great, mind you), and I've been here long enough that despite all the challenges that come with living in an old urban center, I hope I never have to go back to a suburban lifestyle. It was clear from the moment I pulled up to "Main Street" that these psuedo-downtowns miss the point.

clairity 7y ago
i'd read somewhere that these kinds of developments became popular with developers (over indoor malls) because of their success in southern california in the past couple decades: the revitalization of third street promenade in santa monica and the success of the grove in LA (as well as irvine company developments in orange county). to be honest, the grove always gives me the fakeness willies, like it's all facade and no substance (broken only when i walk into a store and it becomes real somehow).
- kop316 7y ago
  I've been to both of those places. The huge difference between them, the example I give, and the one from the website once you park and get to the grove, there's no car traffic in it! The third street promenade likewise had entire blocks closed to traffic. Crossings where also very generous to the pedestrians, so you rarely had to wait to cross the street and knew that you wouldn't get hit. It was also very easy to walk to the Santa Monica beach. Both examples were built for pedestrians.
  - clairity 7y ago
    yes, i was commenting more on the impetus for the rise of insular, faux "microcommunities" in general than on the walkability therein, which, as you point out, is better at 3rd street & the grove.
    - kop316 7y ago
      That's fair. I didn't mean to suggest you were incorrect, my point is I think folks are trying to replicate it without understanding why it works.
bluGill 7y ago
Racism is the wrong cause. The mall probably doesn't own the land between the mall and sidewalk, so it is someone else's problem. The city who most likely owns and controls the land doesn't report to the transit system and doesn't care about it - local voters might vote for transit but they are voting from the idea of getting "other people" (note a race thing) out of their car for either environmental or traffic reasons. The mall developer didn't ask for them because the idea of useful transit doesn't even occur to them. Most places they build a mall can't have any useful connection to transit so they don't even think about how thing might be better with it.
Freak_NL 7y ago
Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/40.02105/-75.62698&layers=N https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/40.02105/-75.62698&lay... Google Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0220899,-75.6249217,3a,66.6y,207.7h,90.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5C4NgWKEvWKE2UYGINRYfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0220899,-75.6249217,3a,66.6y... Wow. That's depressing.
briHass 7y ago
It's interesting that you chose that example, as I'm very familiar with the location. For what it's worth, that area is undergoing massive development and change. Not sure if you've been by recently, but they're adding hundreds of apartments directly in Main Street to finally complete the original plan of mixed residential and commercial. This is in addition to the hundreds of other apartments/condos being built within a 1/2 mile radius of that location. The township (West Whiteland) is very aware of the issues with walking paths and sidewalks to nearby areas and train stations, and there are active plans to address it. You can check out their master plan here: https://www.westwhiteland.org/DocumentCenter/View/154/Lincoln-Highway-and-Whitford-Road-Corridors-Plan-PDF https://www.westwhiteland.org/DocumentCenter/View/154/Lincol... The other thing you might not have noticed is that the beautiful Chester Valley Trail (biking/walking) runs directly through the Main Street center, and connects to many corporate parks (e.g. Vanguard) and shopping locations in Malvern, KOP, etc. It will ultimately connect to the Schuylkill trail that runs to Philadelphia, as well as Valley Forge Park. https://pecpa.org/wp-content/uploads/3-Trail-Itineraries-Brochure-1.pdf https://pecpa.org/wp-content/uploads/3-Trail-Itineraries-Bro...

clairity 7y ago

i'd read somewhere that these kinds of developments became popular with developers (over indoor malls) because of their success in southern california in the past couple decades: the revitalization of third street promenade in santa monica and the success of the grove in LA (as well as irvine company developments in orange county). to be honest, the grove always gives me the fakeness willies, like it's all facade and no substance (broken only when i walk into a store and it becomes real somehow).

kop316 7y ago
I've been to both of those places. The huge difference between them, the example I give, and the one from the website once you park and get to the grove, there's no car traffic in it! The third street promenade likewise had entire blocks closed to traffic. Crossings where also very generous to the pedestrians, so you rarely had to wait to cross the street and knew that you wouldn't get hit. It was also very easy to walk to the Santa Monica beach. Both examples were built for pedestrians.
- clairity 7y ago
  yes, i was commenting more on the impetus for the rise of insular, faux "microcommunities" in general than on the walkability therein, which, as you point out, is better at 3rd street & the grove.
  - kop316 7y ago
    That's fair. I didn't mean to suggest you were incorrect, my point is I think folks are trying to replicate it without understanding why it works.

bluGill 7y ago

Racism is the wrong cause. The mall probably doesn't own the land between the mall and sidewalk, so it is someone else's problem. The city who most likely owns and controls the land doesn't report to the transit system and doesn't care about it - local voters might vote for transit but they are voting from the idea of getting "other people" (note a race thing) out of their car for either environmental or traffic reasons. The mall developer didn't ask for them because the idea of useful transit doesn't even occur to them. Most places they build a mall can't have any useful connection to transit so they don't even think about how thing might be better with it.

Freak_NL 7y ago

Map: https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/40.02105/-75.62698&layers=N https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=17/40.02105/-75.62698&lay... Google Street View: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0220899,-75.6249217,3a,66.6y,207.7h,90.03t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s5C4NgWKEvWKE2UYGINRYfA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0220899,-75.6249217,3a,66.6y... Wow. That's depressing.

briHass 7y ago

It's interesting that you chose that example, as I'm very familiar with the location. For what it's worth, that area is undergoing massive development and change. Not sure if you've been by recently, but they're adding hundreds of apartments directly in Main Street to finally complete the original plan of mixed residential and commercial. This is in addition to the hundreds of other apartments/condos being built within a 1/2 mile radius of that location. The township (West Whiteland) is very aware of the issues with walking paths and sidewalks to nearby areas and train stations, and there are active plans to address it. You can check out their master plan here: https://www.westwhiteland.org/DocumentCenter/View/154/Lincoln-Highway-and-Whitford-Road-Corridors-Plan-PDF https://www.westwhiteland.org/DocumentCenter/View/154/Lincol... The other thing you might not have noticed is that the beautiful Chester Valley Trail (biking/walking) runs directly through the Main Street center, and connects to many corporate parks (e.g. Vanguard) and shopping locations in Malvern, KOP, etc. It will ultimately connect to the Schuylkill trail that runs to Philadelphia, as well as Valley Forge Park. https://pecpa.org/wp-content/uploads/3-Trail-Itineraries-Brochure-1.pdf https://pecpa.org/wp-content/uploads/3-Trail-Itineraries-Bro...